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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9416548" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Sorcerers have the same or less prepared (using that terminology) based on class level until subclass bonus spells are added in for sorcerers.  *Based on UA charts, current articles, and video comments.It's the wizard's ability to swap in spells that sorcerers cannot or access rituals without preparing them that increases access to spells whether prepared or not.I think you're correct.  We should be clarifying which is which in the discussion.Arcane eruption was removed from the class table and I believe is in the spell list now (not sure), but in both cases both classes are limited by spell slots while sorcerers are likely spending some of those limited sorcery points on more than those few spells.What you're describing is a sorcerer better at blasting up to that sorcery point limitation and worse at almost everything else because of the spell selection limitation (bonus spells increased spells prepped but not selected and are mixed bags).Eg empowered spell can increase that damage but doesn't help when a situational spell like knock might be needed.It's a utility move unavailable to sorcerers best used for situational spells that sorcerers don't have room to select.One of the biggest issues with sorcerers is there are spells on the sorcerer list that didn't get selected because they were situational and many players would ignore them because of a lack of opportunity to use those spells.When there's something wrong with the typical spell selection trading those spells out can be solid.Sleep kind of sucks when then the area is heavily populated with immune monsters but a wizard can sideboard in a replacement while a sorcerer makes due with whatever else is available.There seems to be an inherent difference in the two classes where a wizard is looking at expanding options through the spell book while sorcerers are trying to cover as much as possible within a more limited selection.FrogReaver gave a list but it's also the higher level spells, and also importantly the opportunity cost sorcerers have in selecting some of the more situational spells shared on both listsSorcerers have more prepared spells now but they're still more restricted in which spells they can prepare.I would say "opportunity to shine.  Wizards being better for utility and situational spells can allow for sorcerers to shine at other times using meta magic.Wizards don't need all the spotlight.That's 6/9 spells prepared at 5th level.  That doesn't leave much for 2nd and 3rd level spells but the wizard doesn't need to prepare rituals to access them.The wizard has more room within the preparation process because they have a more comprehensive spell list, they can access rituals without preparing them, and they can prepare spells the might need situationally because they have the option of easily swapping those in and out.Please post the build for analysis as to how that's much more powerful than the wizard.  There are advantages and trade-offs from what I see.Saying the sorcerer knows more spells is wrong.  Saying the sorcerer prepares more spells is wrong.  Saying a sorcerer with a subclass that has bonus spells prepared than the wizard has prepared is true but misleading because the wizard has access to more spells than what's prepared.And the sorcerer is preparing the same or less depending on class level.  It's the to what the wizard can prepare that makes the difference here.  Broader list, no need to prep rituals, and opportunities to swap out situationally more effective spells.  Those benefits give wizards better versatility than sorcerers.For what purpose?  Wizards always have access to both but sorcerers only have access to rituals they prepare, which costs them the opportunity to prepare a different spell.Both versus either or is a clear advantage for wizards in the comparison.I'm not sure where you're going with that.  Both classes gain subclass features.  I'd rather you elaborate before getting more into that.If we're comparing blaster builds then sure.  But a single style of build is not a representation on the overall general class for either.  Focusing on this centers something sorcerers are good at while deflecting away from other areas wizards are good at.That can be used up in one encounter the way using them was described.  Using all the sorcerery points in one encounter, taking a short rest to recover some, then using those in a second encounter is only advantageous during those 2 encounters. I pointed that out.  The point is sorcerers stop gaining bonus spells at the rate they have been by that level while wizards do not, and per the articles wizards increase spells prepped compared to other classes who all slow down.I don't disagree.   I've argued that wizards are not as powerful as they are often made out to be other than a few problematic spells, but they certainly aren't underpowered and aren't hurting as a class just because sorcery points are useful while they last.It's got that "losing privilege feels like oppression" vibe, ngl.That seems like a weird take to me because wish comes much later than contingency or simulacrum.  If it's too late for them it's more too late for wish, which is eventually available to pretty much every major caster at this point.The divine soul and "new bard" still have the same issue.  They have a great list from which to prepare, but once they've made that choice their preparation mechanic is extremely limiting.   2014 bards had 2 spells at 10th level and gained 2 at 14th and 2 at 18th.  2024 bards are gaining 1 spell at 10th level instead and gain additions spells at 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th thru 20th for a total of 8 with secrets available instead of 6. Any other spells added for the bard require giving up spells, and they don't have the bonuses from subclasses or class features.If we're going to bring up blasters it's not like a bard has an option to toss a fireball from which their party members can be protected at all.The evoker has potent cantrip, sculpt spell, and empowered evocation on all applicable spells at no cost.  The sorcerer has metamagic with cost.  The bard picks 1 spell from the lists with no benefits to the spell; worst caster of the three.At 10th level all 3 classes have 15 spells prepped from the base list.  Divine souls only get 1 bonus spell instead of 10 from the subclass and they're splitting those 16 spells among 5 spell levels.  Glamour bards have the most bonus spells prepped with charm person, mirror image, and command.  They have 15 spells prepped among 5 levels.  Those do not change as needed.The abjurer has 17 spells prepared (2 free with counter spell and dispel magic), access to additional rituals that need not be prepared, and a minimum of 24 spells known in the spell book.  15 of those are prepped and 9 are a combination of rituals not needed to be prepped and some useful spells (because the most useful spells in the eyes of the player will be chosen) that can be swapped in via short rest.The number of spells available in the lists only matters up to the point that they are selected.  Once the sorcerer or bard selects those spells the wizard's spell book becomes the greater repository of spells available even with considering ritual casting times or short rest swaps.I don't think anyone is disagreeing that wizards make a better utility class.  I think the disagreement is in the apparent desire for wizards to be a better utility class and a better blaster (or other styles) class as well.That was a lot so if I was unclear please ask.</blockquote>

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