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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dvvega" data-source="post: 1561985" data-attributes="member: 524">To answer your question directly: 25 point buy is the STANDARD point buy in the DMGNow onto my little commentary of the day. Please note that this is my opinion entirely and I would prefer no abuse from people disagreeing with me, and would welcome discussion.Being a veteran of (A)D&D from the little booklets onwards, I have used many character generation systems.From the original 3d6, through the Unearth Arcana (1st ed version) special human generation, through to 3.X point buy. Throw in some home-grown systems, other systems from magazines etc and you have a big bag of stuff.The biggest problem with ANY of the systems is actually not the method, but the attitude of the players. Many posts in this thread indicate that 32+ is best because they become heroes. But what is a hero? A bunch of numbers, or the deeds accomplished?Now my opinion on methods: Rolling is random indeed and I used the random system for my first 3.X campaign because I was used to random generation from previous editions. I had one player roll 2 18s, 3 16s and a 14 right in front of me and the next player using the same dice got nothing above 14. These players started out on completely different levels of ability.So if a character died and the player decided on a new character I introduced 32 point buy. The only reason I did this was to keep the power levels equal amongst the party attribute-wise. I have found that 32 point buy is over-powered. Most written products use the standard matrix for their encounters. I've not found one that isn't standard (but I don't use FR or LG so maybe it's just my experience).Statistically speaking: I generated 12,000 characters using 4d6 drop lowest (using a statistics package, not by hand). This number was simply to ensure that the distribution was accurate as opposed to rolling 10 characters and getting a skewed result. The dead average ability was 12.3333 (12) thus giving an average stat bonus total of +6.Using the point buy methods, you must make every stat at least 10 to gain the biggest possible stat bonuses. In 32 point buy if you take 2 18's (+4 each) then you have 4 8s (-1) each for a total of +4. The biggest bonus is generally obtained by dividing the points evenly amongst the stats. So 32 point buy would be 4 points to each stat making them 12 and an extra 2 points for 4 stats making them 14 for a +10 stat bonus total.So you will generally obtain the following:25 point buy - +6  total (12 each, 1x 15)28 point buy - +8  total (12 each, 2x 14)32 point buy - +10 total (12 each, 4x 14)The 25 point buy method represents the standard 4d6 drop the lowest, however it removes the randomness aspect and thus ensures that everyone is equal at the start.28 point buy produces slightly stronger characters but not overly so, compared to the standard, they are a little above average.32 point buy has a huge deviation from the mean. And extra +4 stat bonus over 28 point buy (+6 over 25). This makes a large difference in encounters.Although none of the abilities gave more than +2, the fact that 32 point buy gives you had 4 abilities granting that +2 makes a world of difference. The Wizard has more HP, better AC, +2 DC to his spells, and a +2 modifier on touch attacks from Strength. The fighter has better will saves, AC, hit points, and some skill points (dubious advantage), and a monk is just even better with every saving throw getting an additional +2.Of course people will argue that no-one takes that 4x 14s and 2x 12s. They want an 18 in their primary stat! Well that's plain silly. If you're playing a numbers game (which it seems a lot of people are), taking the 14s and 12s gives you a much better chance at survival early on. With the plethora of ability boosts available, it's a moot point that you start with a 14. You will have a 16 soon enough with a +2 item.So 25 point buy is the average (and standard) system. If you use 25 point buy I would suggest allowing them to roll instead. Why? Because it gives them a chance at breaking the average mould.28 point buy is a good balance between average and over-powered. With 28 a wizard can get +2 AC, or +2 on his touch attacks in addition to his +2 DC to spells but not everything like a 32 point Wizard would.32 point buy is just asking for trouble both in using purchased products, and encounters against the average traps and monsters in the DMG and MM.</blockquote>

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