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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the_bruiser" data-source="post: 5028891" data-attributes="member: 6126">I’m just writing in response to a thread started by Mercurius.  In it he mentioned the 2E character class creation rules as a thing ‘lost’ in 3E and 4E.  Others seem to think those rules were way underpowered.  This is NOT an attack on those people, but an honest question of how our views were so different – we outlawed them due to being overpowered!  Some examples of those who felt otherwise:The Little Raven said: I remember those rules... and that's not a good thing. They basically boiled down to 'anything you make will be worse than the standard classes,' which in my mind is not encouragement to use them.Stuntman said:  In 2E the class creation guidelines end up allowing you to create a class that is crappy compared to anything premade.Mircoles said:  I remember those class creation rules. I made one class with them, realized that any class i made using them would suck and never used them again.-------------I’m just trying to figure out why my experience was so different.  I’ll admit that we gamed the system.  If you had a guy with 18 STR you bought the fighter STR bonus, and if you wanted to play LG you took the L and G penalties.  But to make a decent character you had to do those things, so we assumed it was the designers’ intentions, not a faux pas.  Here are two guys I made that were ridiculous in our games.  This is a summary of the character design purchases.  Yes, I still have the excel files from games from 15 years ago.Were we playing this wrong in the sense of misunderstanding the rules or taking too much advantage or what?BOB THE BURNER – a durable, fast-advancing wizard*  No THAC0 advancement*  d8 HD and fighter CON bonus*  no armor (cloak of displacement and bracers of defense key)*  pick 4 weapons*  priest spells – healing only – that’s a LOT of healing*  mage spells – evocation and alteration*  mage magic items*  restrictions – lawful, good, donate 10%, no more wealth than carry, only 6 items, no associate with bardsBob advanced MUCH more quickly than wizards – usually 2-3 levels ahead, and reaching level 20 when a wizard would only be 11th!  (I can’t emphasize this enough.)LOGAN THE WANDERER – the most versatile character I ever played*  Warrior THAC0 advancement and strength bonus (18/73 strength!)*  d8 HD *  no armor (cloak of displacement and bracers of defense key)*  thief weapons*  priest spells – healing only – that’s a LOT of healing*  mage spells – evocation and alteration*  thief abilities – hide in shadows and move silently*  druid shapechange – healing, scouting, waterbreathing, flying*  mage magic items*  restrictions – lawful, good, donate 10%, no more wealth than carry, only 6 items, no associate with bardsLogan stabilized about 2-3 levels behind wizards, but look at all he could do!  Sneaky, shapechange, healing, ‘boom’ from evocation, decent HP, and great at dealing damage in melee, especially with alteration buffs. --------------We outlawed this stuff and now are saying it was ridiculously underpowered.  What were we missing?</blockquote>

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