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2e Druids, 4e druids, and thematic rules...
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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 5365645" data-attributes="member: 65637"><p>It is, though.</p><p></p><p>Must tithe income? Can't retain wealth? Ok, that's great. You can't buy magic items. What else are you going to spend the gold on? Not much of a limitation. Same with the amgic items - when your magic items are literally "What the DM gives you," only having ten (Which is a huge number) isn't much of a limitation.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>So not only do you flat out admit that non-casters literally do not upgrade, but that spellcasting is the most important thing and the only thing that dramatically upgrades. This is an important thing to mention!</p><p> </p><p>To what comparisons? A level 9 and a level 20 wizard in 2e are just as unmatchable. The only thing you've proven so far is "Yeah non-casters are even worst in 2e then they are otherwise."</p><p> </p><p>I know how 2e saves works.</p><p></p><p>What you've just proven is, again, that the 2e fighter has <strong>higher</strong> save increases then the 3e one does due to the static nature. You're arguing my point for me.</p><p> </p><p>Uh, no. The percentages you use there don't work. Have you played 3e?</p><p></p><p>You have to hold something up as comparison. The save increases a fighter gets are miniscule compared to the 2e one because saves aren't a static number. The fighter's saves other then fortitude go up dramatically slower then a wizard's DCs do.</p><p> </p><p>See the bold?</p><p></p><p>You <strong>just admitted</strong> that spellcasting is the only thing that dramatically increases. You <strong>just admitted</strong> that spellcasting is by and large the most important and most powerful thing in 2e.</p><p></p><p>So yes, you're correct. That fifth level spell <em>is</em> absolutely massive.</p><p> </p><p>Comparison. Do you make them?</p><p></p><p>Monsters in 3e likewise improve dramatically harder then 2e does. The actual curve of powers (theoretically) remains the same - PCs got stronger and harder to kill, but so too did monsters. The 3e dragon and 2e dragon aren't even comparable; the 3e dragon is stronger in every single way. A level 1 orc in 2e and a level 1 orc in 3e are equally dramatically different.</p><p></p><p>What breaks druids is, you guessed it, spell casting (and wild shape). Not "how good they level."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ProfessorCirno, post: 5365645, member: 65637"] It is, though. Must tithe income? Can't retain wealth? Ok, that's great. You can't buy magic items. What else are you going to spend the gold on? Not much of a limitation. Same with the amgic items - when your magic items are literally "What the DM gives you," only having ten (Which is a huge number) isn't much of a limitation. So not only do you flat out admit that non-casters literally do not upgrade, but that spellcasting is the most important thing and the only thing that dramatically upgrades. This is an important thing to mention! To what comparisons? A level 9 and a level 20 wizard in 2e are just as unmatchable. The only thing you've proven so far is "Yeah non-casters are even worst in 2e then they are otherwise." I know how 2e saves works. What you've just proven is, again, that the 2e fighter has [B]higher[/B] save increases then the 3e one does due to the static nature. You're arguing my point for me. Uh, no. The percentages you use there don't work. Have you played 3e? You have to hold something up as comparison. The save increases a fighter gets are miniscule compared to the 2e one because saves aren't a static number. The fighter's saves other then fortitude go up dramatically slower then a wizard's DCs do. See the bold? You [B]just admitted[/B] that spellcasting is the only thing that dramatically increases. You [B]just admitted[/B] that spellcasting is by and large the most important and most powerful thing in 2e. So yes, you're correct. That fifth level spell [I]is[/I] absolutely massive. Comparison. Do you make them? Monsters in 3e likewise improve dramatically harder then 2e does. The actual curve of powers (theoretically) remains the same - PCs got stronger and harder to kill, but so too did monsters. The 3e dragon and 2e dragon aren't even comparable; the 3e dragon is stronger in every single way. A level 1 orc in 2e and a level 1 orc in 3e are equally dramatically different. What breaks druids is, you guessed it, spell casting (and wild shape). Not "how good they level." [/QUOTE]
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