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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7636237" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Whenever the lethality of editions are discussed, typically it's usually OD&D is the most, then AD&D 1e, then B/X, then 2e, then 3e, then 5e, then 4e. That seems to be the most common breakdown people do when rating the editions (it's how I would have done it by memory). However, when looking at the rules, it seems 2e just might actually be the most lethal edition. (Yes, I know any edition can be lethal depending on the DM, but this is factoring RAW, all else being equal).</p><p></p><p>Here is my argument (only comparing OD&D-2e, as we all can agree that 3e, 4e, and 5e rules are not as lethal as previous editions (removal of save or die, increasing ability scores, powers gained at almost every level, assumption of increased magic items, etc):</p><p></p><p>OD&D: All characters had 1d6 hp (fighting men got a bonus at varying levels), and all weapons did 1d6 damage. Abilities were generated by rolling 3d6 in order. A typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d6 damage, 1d6 hp). The ancient red dragon had AC 2 and 66 hit points breath weapon was current hp. You died at 0 hp.</p><p></p><p>B/X: Hit die varied from 1d4 to 1d8, depending on race/class. bonus to hp only came from a Con bonus. All weapons did 1d6 damage (variable damage was optional). Abilities were rolled 3d6 in order. A typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d6 dmg, 1d8 hp). The ancient red dragon had AC-1 and 104 hp, breath weapon was current hp. you died at 0 hp.</p><p></p><p>1e: Hit dice increased for some classes, ranging from 1d4 to 1d10 (rangers got 2d8 at 1st level, and monks got 2d4 at first level). Weapons did variable damage. Default ability score generation was 4d6 drop lowest. You could go to -10 hp before dying. Typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d8 dmg, 1d8 hp). Ancient red dragon was AC -1, 88 hp, breath weapon was current hp.</p><p></p><p>2e: HD from 1d4 to 1d10, ability score default was 3d6 in order. if you took more than 50 points of damage in one hit, you had to make a save or you died. you died at 0 hp. Typical monster for level 1 PCs was the orc (AC 6, 1d8 hp, dmg 1d8). Ancient red dragon (AC-3, HD: 23(avg 103 hp) breath weapon was 24d10+12 (avg 146)</p><p></p><p>Looking at those comparisons and factoring how much damage a PC could take vs how many hp they had (and what average ability scores would be), it appears 2e is the most lethal edition. Then B/X. It surprised me that 2e went back to the default 3d6 in order. I had to do a double take when reading that. But yep, it was. B/X is almost exactly like OD&D (both had d6 weapon damage as standard), but monsters went from a d6 for hit dice to a d8. And iconic higher level monsters were tougher (the B/X dragon was more deadly than both OD&D and 1e).</p><p></p><p></p><p>So...when ranking the editions by lethality, it goes 2e>B/X>OD&D>1e>3e>5e>4e</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmmm....discussion?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7636237, member: 15700"] Whenever the lethality of editions are discussed, typically it's usually OD&D is the most, then AD&D 1e, then B/X, then 2e, then 3e, then 5e, then 4e. That seems to be the most common breakdown people do when rating the editions (it's how I would have done it by memory). However, when looking at the rules, it seems 2e just might actually be the most lethal edition. (Yes, I know any edition can be lethal depending on the DM, but this is factoring RAW, all else being equal). Here is my argument (only comparing OD&D-2e, as we all can agree that 3e, 4e, and 5e rules are not as lethal as previous editions (removal of save or die, increasing ability scores, powers gained at almost every level, assumption of increased magic items, etc): OD&D: All characters had 1d6 hp (fighting men got a bonus at varying levels), and all weapons did 1d6 damage. Abilities were generated by rolling 3d6 in order. A typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d6 damage, 1d6 hp). The ancient red dragon had AC 2 and 66 hit points breath weapon was current hp. You died at 0 hp. B/X: Hit die varied from 1d4 to 1d8, depending on race/class. bonus to hp only came from a Con bonus. All weapons did 1d6 damage (variable damage was optional). Abilities were rolled 3d6 in order. A typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d6 dmg, 1d8 hp). The ancient red dragon had AC-1 and 104 hp, breath weapon was current hp. you died at 0 hp. 1e: Hit dice increased for some classes, ranging from 1d4 to 1d10 (rangers got 2d8 at 1st level, and monks got 2d4 at first level). Weapons did variable damage. Default ability score generation was 4d6 drop lowest. You could go to -10 hp before dying. Typical monster level 1 PCs faced were orcs (AC 6, 1d8 dmg, 1d8 hp). Ancient red dragon was AC -1, 88 hp, breath weapon was current hp. 2e: HD from 1d4 to 1d10, ability score default was 3d6 in order. if you took more than 50 points of damage in one hit, you had to make a save or you died. you died at 0 hp. Typical monster for level 1 PCs was the orc (AC 6, 1d8 hp, dmg 1d8). Ancient red dragon (AC-3, HD: 23(avg 103 hp) breath weapon was 24d10+12 (avg 146) Looking at those comparisons and factoring how much damage a PC could take vs how many hp they had (and what average ability scores would be), it appears 2e is the most lethal edition. Then B/X. It surprised me that 2e went back to the default 3d6 in order. I had to do a double take when reading that. But yep, it was. B/X is almost exactly like OD&D (both had d6 weapon damage as standard), but monsters went from a d6 for hit dice to a d8. And iconic higher level monsters were tougher (the B/X dragon was more deadly than both OD&D and 1e). So...when ranking the editions by lethality, it goes 2e>B/X>OD&D>1e>3e>5e>4e Hmmm....discussion? [/QUOTE]
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