Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7637185" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>OK, I had noticed you said something about auras, and now that definitely reminds me of an encounter in, IIRC, PoS, with Chillborn Zombies. In 4e, virtually all auras didn't stack when overlapping, but - wonders of exception-based design - a few explicitly did...</p><p>...and illustrated why they shouldn't've. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>I can't recall exactly where, but I heard that 8 encounters was the original intended pacing of 4e, but it turned out to be more like 3-5 (or 1) out in the wild, which contributed to the MM3 monster math update.</p><p></p><p>Ironic that 5e has once again set the theoretical-balance-point target at 6-8.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As was pointed out, up-thread, the standard version of that rule was /exactly/ 0. So if you were knocked from positive to -1 or lower , you were dead. That 1 point difference should have no meaningful impact on comparative lethality. And, while it may not have been presented as an optional rule (really, all rules in the DMG were optional in a sense, as they were the DM's province, and he could choose when or whether to introduce a given rule), if it wasn't optional, it was a contradiction or rule change from the PH1 (one of many, and the DMG also contradicted itself here & there). </p><p></p><p>Turn on the 'optional' versions, and in 2e, you could be knocked from positive to -9 and still survive a round, while in 1e, the lower bound to be at death's door was -3. That 6-pt difference, though, would /surely/ have been overwhelmed by the damage boosts on the monster side in 2e. So it doesn't help, by itself, even if you go with the widely used options. (And, IMX, 1e DMs often - always, IIRC, but, it's a limited sample from almost 40 years ago, so I'll go with the weaselly 'often' - ran death's door the way 2e would later present it.)</p><p></p><p>Your enemies could have Tier 1 class levels, too. How much more deadly do you need? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is a special challenge when the rules had both explicit alternate options /and/ outright contradictory or vague sections that required interpretations that could be as or more different from eachother than actual variants! </p><p></p><p>And, 'once again,' the RaW in the TSR era had no encounter guidelines, so there's no comparing the lethality of a 3e encounter of CR = level to the equivalent in earlier editions, as there simply was no equivalent. (and, no the HD/levels equivalence used in a few specific rules does not even approach that)</p><p></p><p>Makes sense.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7637185, member: 996"] OK, I had noticed you said something about auras, and now that definitely reminds me of an encounter in, IIRC, PoS, with Chillborn Zombies. In 4e, virtually all auras didn't stack when overlapping, but - wonders of exception-based design - a few explicitly did... ...and illustrated why they shouldn't've. ;) I can't recall exactly where, but I heard that 8 encounters was the original intended pacing of 4e, but it turned out to be more like 3-5 (or 1) out in the wild, which contributed to the MM3 monster math update. Ironic that 5e has once again set the theoretical-balance-point target at 6-8. As was pointed out, up-thread, the standard version of that rule was /exactly/ 0. So if you were knocked from positive to -1 or lower , you were dead. That 1 point difference should have no meaningful impact on comparative lethality. And, while it may not have been presented as an optional rule (really, all rules in the DMG were optional in a sense, as they were the DM's province, and he could choose when or whether to introduce a given rule), if it wasn't optional, it was a contradiction or rule change from the PH1 (one of many, and the DMG also contradicted itself here & there). Turn on the 'optional' versions, and in 2e, you could be knocked from positive to -9 and still survive a round, while in 1e, the lower bound to be at death's door was -3. That 6-pt difference, though, would /surely/ have been overwhelmed by the damage boosts on the monster side in 2e. So it doesn't help, by itself, even if you go with the widely used options. (And, IMX, 1e DMs often - always, IIRC, but, it's a limited sample from almost 40 years ago, so I'll go with the weaselly 'often' - ran death's door the way 2e would later present it.) Your enemies could have Tier 1 class levels, too. How much more deadly do you need? ;) Which is a special challenge when the rules had both explicit alternate options /and/ outright contradictory or vague sections that required interpretations that could be as or more different from eachother than actual variants! And, 'once again,' the RaW in the TSR era had no encounter guidelines, so there's no comparing the lethality of a 3e encounter of CR = level to the equivalent in earlier editions, as there simply was no equivalent. (and, no the HD/levels equivalence used in a few specific rules does not even approach that) Makes sense. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
Top