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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
2e, the most lethal edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7637993" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>Nothing has been interpreted 40 years after the fact. It was interpreted during 1e back in the early 80's.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. The DM that dictated which rules were used. The PHB didn't have primacy. You also clearly haven't read the 1e DMG introduction which not only does not state that the rules inside it are all options, but in fact says otherwise. It states straight out that they supplement and augment the PHB rules, which means that the DMG changes them. The PHB rules are secondary to the DMG rules, regardless of whether or not the players read the DMG, which virtually all of them did anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, except not. I've already states that I'm basing it on actual game play. I lost far more PCs playing 1e than 2e, and with many of the same DMs, so it wasn't a DM thing. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Other than the fact that it said otherwise, sure. Seriously, read the introduction in the 1e DMG. You'll see that the things inside are not optional rules outside of every rule in every book being technically "optional."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They are flat out contradictory no matter how you understand them or how many glances it takes. The PHB states that 0 hit poins = death. Not maybe death. Not sometimes death. Always death. The DMG states that 0 hit points is never death. It's unconsciousness and you may eventually die or not. Those are mutually exclusive positions. You cannot have 0 hit points be both always death and never death.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Per the DMG introduction, the rule in the DMG was an augmentation to the PHB rule and was not at all an optional rule.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #333333"></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"></span>Hmm. It seems you have read the intro and just didn't understand it. Here are some portions that will help you.</p><p></p><p>"It is incumbent upon all DMs to be thoroughly conversant with the PLAYERS HANDBOOK, and at the same time you must also know the additional information which is given in this volume, <strong>for it rounds out and completes the whole.</strong> While players will know that they must decide upon an alignment, for example, you, the DM, will further know that each and every action they take will be mentally recorded by you; and at adventure’s end you will secretly note any player character movement on the alignment graph."</p><p></p><p>"After the material which pertains directly to the PLAYERS HANDBOOK comes the information which supplements and augments."</p><p></p><p>"And while<strong> there are no optionals for the maior systems of ADVANCED D&D</strong> (for uniformity of rules and procedures from game to game, campaign to campaign, is stressed), there are plenty of areas where your own creativity and imagination are not bounded by the parameters of the game system. These are sections where only a few hints and suggestions are given, and the rest left to the DM."</p><p></p><p>The DMG rounds out and completes the PHB rules. Then it offers supplements and augmentations to the rules. Then it says straight out that there are no optionals for the major systems. Unless you are suggesting to me that hit point damage and PC death is a minor system...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7637993, member: 23751"] Nothing has been interpreted 40 years after the fact. It was interpreted during 1e back in the early 80's. Yes. The DM that dictated which rules were used. The PHB didn't have primacy. You also clearly haven't read the 1e DMG introduction which not only does not state that the rules inside it are all options, but in fact says otherwise. It states straight out that they supplement and augment the PHB rules, which means that the DMG changes them. The PHB rules are secondary to the DMG rules, regardless of whether or not the players read the DMG, which virtually all of them did anyway. Sure, except not. I've already states that I'm basing it on actual game play. I lost far more PCs playing 1e than 2e, and with many of the same DMs, so it wasn't a DM thing. Other than the fact that it said otherwise, sure. Seriously, read the introduction in the 1e DMG. You'll see that the things inside are not optional rules outside of every rule in every book being technically "optional." They are flat out contradictory no matter how you understand them or how many glances it takes. The PHB states that 0 hit poins = death. Not maybe death. Not sometimes death. Always death. The DMG states that 0 hit points is never death. It's unconsciousness and you may eventually die or not. Those are mutually exclusive positions. You cannot have 0 hit points be both always death and never death. Per the DMG introduction, the rule in the DMG was an augmentation to the PHB rule and was not at all an optional rule. [COLOR=#333333] [/COLOR]Hmm. It seems you have read the intro and just didn't understand it. Here are some portions that will help you. "It is incumbent upon all DMs to be thoroughly conversant with the PLAYERS HANDBOOK, and at the same time you must also know the additional information which is given in this volume, [B]for it rounds out and completes the whole.[/B] While players will know that they must decide upon an alignment, for example, you, the DM, will further know that each and every action they take will be mentally recorded by you; and at adventure’s end you will secretly note any player character movement on the alignment graph." "After the material which pertains directly to the PLAYERS HANDBOOK comes the information which supplements and augments." "And while[B] there are no optionals for the maior systems of ADVANCED D&D[/B] (for uniformity of rules and procedures from game to game, campaign to campaign, is stressed), there are plenty of areas where your own creativity and imagination are not bounded by the parameters of the game system. These are sections where only a few hints and suggestions are given, and the rest left to the DM." The DMG rounds out and completes the PHB rules. Then it offers supplements and augmentations to the rules. Then it says straight out that there are no optionals for the major systems. Unless you are suggesting to me that hit point damage and PC death is a minor system... [/QUOTE]
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