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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 9645846" data-attributes="member: 2209">It was also only listen that explicitly had the same 1st level thief chances for everyone in 1e and B/X Basic which did not have the discretionary spend percentages for thieves. 1e in the DMG it says everyone has a (really poor) d20 chance based on race which as percentages match up to the thief base skill and racial adjustments and in B/X Basic a 1st level thief starts out with the same hear noise chance that everyone has using the same d6 mechanic which makes it a sort of stealth third level and higher only class power for them in both systems.So I made the opposite inference. Listen is the only thief skill with with the same mechanic and same starting chance as everyone else so the ones that do not have that power explicitly as a thing that anyone can try seem to be intentional in not doing so. So I inferred things like picking locks and picking pockets are not things that can really be done by the untrained/unpracticed. I IRL certainly would not expect to successfully pick a lock having had no experience even trying to do so.If you give the 1st level thief chances to everybody you are pretty much giving a 1st level thief zero even crappy unique powers. What is left is the ability to wear leather armor and wield some weapons (limited in AD&D, any in Basic) and backstab. In 2e they get the discretionary points as well as their class ability.1e DMG page 60:LISTENING AT DOORSIn addition to the simple exercise of observation, many times characters willdesire to listen, ear pressed to a portal, prior to opening and entering. Thisrequires a special check, in secret, by you to determine if any sound is heard.Because of this, continual listening becomes a great bother to the DM. Whileear seekers will tend to discourage some, most players will insist on having theircharacters listen at doors at every pretense. First, make certain that you explainto players that all headgear must be removed in order to listen. Those wearinghelmets will probably have to remove a mail coif and padded cap as well,don’t forget. The party must also be absolutely silent, and listening will take atleast one round.Silent creatures — undead, bugbears, etc. — will never be heard. Sleeping orresting or alerted creatures will not be heard either. If there is something for thelistener to hear behind the door, the following probabilities will determine if anysound is heard:Race Of Listener Chance Of Hearing NoiseDwarf 2 in 20 (10%)Elf 3 in 20 (15%)Gnome 4 in 20 (20%)Half-Elf 2 in 20 (10%)Halfling 3 in 20 (15%)Half-Orc 3 in 20 (15%)Human 2 in 20 (10%)Keen-eared individuals will gain a bonus of 1 or 2 in 20 (5% or 10%). Usechance of hearing a noise to determine if a character is keen-eared the firsttime he or she listens at a door, and if it is indicated, tell the player to note thefact for his or her character. Player characters will not initially have hearingproblems (as they wouldn’t have survived if they had them). During the courseof adventuring, great noise might cause hearing loss. Handle this as you see fit.A loss of hearing might negate the chance to hear something behind a doorwithout any other noticeable effects.Hearing Noise: When a die roll indicates a noise has been heard, tell theplayer whose character was listening that he or she heard a clink, footstep,murmuring voices, slithering, laughter, or whatever is appropriate. (Of course,some of these noises will be magical, e.g., audible glamer spells, not anythingwhich will be encountered at all!) Be imprecise and give only vague hints; neversay, “You hear ogres,” but “You hear rumbling, voice-like sounds.” Failure tohear any noise can be due to the fact that nothing which will make noise isbeyond the portal, or it might be due to a bad (for the listener) die roll. Alwaysroll the die, even if you know nothing can be heard. Always appeardisinterested regardless of the situation.Maximum Number Of Listeners: Each listener will take up about 2½’ ofspace, so up to three can listen at a typical dungeon door.Maximum Length Of Time For Listening: Only three attempts can bemade before the strain becomes too great. After the third attempt, the listenersmust cease such activity for at least five rounds before returning to listening again.1e PH page 28:[ATTACH=full]403546[/ATTACH]B/X Basic page B8:[ATTACH=full]403549[/ATTACH]Page B21:[ATTACH=full]403550[/ATTACH]OK seeing the specifics again my memory was wrong, 1st level thieves in B/X are explicitly twice as good as other humans at listening.</blockquote>

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