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2E vs 3E: 8 Years Later. A new perspective?
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<blockquote data-quote="JoseFreitas" data-source="post: 3998766" data-attributes="member: 39778"><p>I do not play 3rd, and I don't even play 2nd, rather a mix of 1st and 2nd. But I do buy a few 3rd Ed books, and in general I admire the rules design. But it's not a game I like to play (at last as a DM), for questions of taste and type of gameplay.</p><p></p><p>- I don't think PCs are meant to be super-hero, cinematic video game inspired heroes. I rather prefer the concept of obscure PCs slowly rising to fame and success. When a 3rd Ed PC reaches 20th level I am sure he gets less of a kick than a 1st edition PC reaching 10th level.</p><p></p><p>- I go so far as to question the need of an explicit skill system, as well as the need of a single mechanic in the game with all parts of the game (combat, magic, skills, etc) fitted into it. If that's what I wanted, I would have moved to GURPS way back then. There is nothing wrong with no skill system, we managed for years with AD&D1, the game had more than enough rules "subsystems" using different types of die rolls, etc to cater for anything. A Strength based skill? Use the Door Breaking roll, or perhaps the Bend Bars %, or if you need something that is more level dependent use the Paralyzation save, etc.... After all these years, I recognize that all these systems gave the (good) DM the tools to handle anything while retaining more of the organic (ie. non-contrived) feel and flavor of a pseudo-medieval game.</p><p></p><p>- I do not enjoy non-archetypical PCs. I find that the over-abundance of Feats and customization detracts from this, with weirdo Fighters that are all different from each other without really having a good story to cater for it. Plus, it makes the DMs work Hell.</p><p></p><p>- the combat rules presently can actually do away with the DM, they are so exacting and precise. This displeases me, and I much prefer to also be able to manage a fight without miniatures. I prefer to retain some control over what's happening in the field. The current rules encourage, nay, demand rules-lawyering and min/maxing of characters.</p><p></p><p>But mostly, I miss:</p><p></p><p>"Igor the Brute, 5th level fighter, 37 HP, Str 16, Dmg +1, Long Sword and 10GP in pouch".</p><p></p><p>I think I wouldn't have the time to design any kind of adventure using the current rules.</p><p></p><p>Having said this, I recognize 3rd Ed has a brilliantly designed edition. I love some of the books. I loved some ideas and rules from 2Vd edition, back then. For instance, cleric customization. Categorizing creatures and weapons into Size categories. Better monster descriptions. Etc.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, I like some of the stuff in 3rd. Even better monster descriptions. Better spell descriptions and categorizations. Some combat rules. Etc. I find that I frequently refer to 3rd if I need to adjudicate some difficult ruling, or if I need to clarify some issue before rolling.</p><p></p><p>But I wish to point out that attacks of opportunity actually appeared in 1st edition: characters fleeing opponents by turning their backs give their opponents a free attack. 2nd edition expanded this in Combat & Tactics book, without going overboard like 3rd ( <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JoseFreitas, post: 3998766, member: 39778"] I do not play 3rd, and I don't even play 2nd, rather a mix of 1st and 2nd. But I do buy a few 3rd Ed books, and in general I admire the rules design. But it's not a game I like to play (at last as a DM), for questions of taste and type of gameplay. - I don't think PCs are meant to be super-hero, cinematic video game inspired heroes. I rather prefer the concept of obscure PCs slowly rising to fame and success. When a 3rd Ed PC reaches 20th level I am sure he gets less of a kick than a 1st edition PC reaching 10th level. - I go so far as to question the need of an explicit skill system, as well as the need of a single mechanic in the game with all parts of the game (combat, magic, skills, etc) fitted into it. If that's what I wanted, I would have moved to GURPS way back then. There is nothing wrong with no skill system, we managed for years with AD&D1, the game had more than enough rules "subsystems" using different types of die rolls, etc to cater for anything. A Strength based skill? Use the Door Breaking roll, or perhaps the Bend Bars %, or if you need something that is more level dependent use the Paralyzation save, etc.... After all these years, I recognize that all these systems gave the (good) DM the tools to handle anything while retaining more of the organic (ie. non-contrived) feel and flavor of a pseudo-medieval game. - I do not enjoy non-archetypical PCs. I find that the over-abundance of Feats and customization detracts from this, with weirdo Fighters that are all different from each other without really having a good story to cater for it. Plus, it makes the DMs work Hell. - the combat rules presently can actually do away with the DM, they are so exacting and precise. This displeases me, and I much prefer to also be able to manage a fight without miniatures. I prefer to retain some control over what's happening in the field. The current rules encourage, nay, demand rules-lawyering and min/maxing of characters. But mostly, I miss: "Igor the Brute, 5th level fighter, 37 HP, Str 16, Dmg +1, Long Sword and 10GP in pouch". I think I wouldn't have the time to design any kind of adventure using the current rules. Having said this, I recognize 3rd Ed has a brilliantly designed edition. I love some of the books. I loved some ideas and rules from 2Vd edition, back then. For instance, cleric customization. Categorizing creatures and weapons into Size categories. Better monster descriptions. Etc. Similarly, I like some of the stuff in 3rd. Even better monster descriptions. Better spell descriptions and categorizations. Some combat rules. Etc. I find that I frequently refer to 3rd if I need to adjudicate some difficult ruling, or if I need to clarify some issue before rolling. But I wish to point out that attacks of opportunity actually appeared in 1st edition: characters fleeing opponents by turning their backs give their opponents a free attack. 2nd edition expanded this in Combat & Tactics book, without going overboard like 3rd ( :D ). [/QUOTE]
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