D&D 3E/3.5 3.0 Weapon Master balanced in 3.5?

[Bibliophile]

Well, I'm starting up a high-level 3.5 campaign, and a player wants to take levels of the 3.0 weapon master class from Sword and Fist. Now, a quick glance over definately puts that as a powerful class, in comparison to 3.5 PrCs, but, is it too powerful for a 3.5 campaign?

Also, what about its abilities to increase threat ranges/critical multipliers? Should these be changed to be more in line with the apparent 3.5 attitude exhibited by not allowing Improved Critical to stack with the Keen modifier?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hypersmurf]

If it's any help, Andy Collins (who seems to have spearheaded the Crits should be special! movement that led to non-stacking of Keen and Improved Critical in 3.5) said that he'd probably let the Weapon Master's ability continue to stack with Improved Critical in 3.5.

-Hyp.

 

[rushlight]

If it's any help, Andy Collins (who seems to have spearheaded the Crits should be special! movement that led to non-stacking of Keen and Improved Critical in 3.5) said that he'd probably let the Weapon Master's ability continue to stack with Improved Critical in 3.5.

-Hyp.

In contrast to that, I've banned that PrC altogether. If you allow crit stacking, it's easily possible (especially at higher levels) to create damage output in excess of what's possible with 9th level spells - in a single round. This I can tell you from personal experience.

Of course, if you are playing at lower levels (under 15th or so) and you put great limitations on available magic items, then you'll probably be fine - but just keep your eye open for possible abuse. That PrC is one of the most abusable ever.

Oh, and FYI, I believe there is a 3.5 version of that class in Complete Warrior that addresses some of the issues, so you might check that out as well.

 

[Limper]

There is no version of the class in CW.

 

[Jhamin]

Oh, and FYI, I believe there is a 3.5 version of that class in Complete Warrior that addresses some of the issues, so you might check that out as well.

Not quite, but an easy mistake to make.

The 3.0 S&F weapon master has alot of powers based off of the old 1st/2nd edition Kensai class. When Oriental Adventures came out the class was reprinted more or less exactly.

In Complete Warrior there is a class called the Kensai with powers and abilites that bear little or no resemblence to either the old 1st/2nd ed Kensai or the two 3.0 Weapon Master Pclasses. This new class is ok, but isn't really useful as a comparison.

 

[Shazman]

I would leave the 3.0 weapon master as is in 3.5. Maybe change superior weapon focus to greater weapon focus as a bonus feat. I would either keep the ki critical ability and allow it to stack with improved critical, or you could give the power critical feat instead of ki critical.

 

[Ripper-nk]

Not balance with 3.5?
I can't see what is so powerfull in weapon master, now keen + improved crit dont stack, so the weapon master are nerfed.

Do you want see unbalance, read the Frenzied Berserker an CRY!

 

[fl8m]

i'm running an epic campaign with a weapon master (greataxe) the combination of his max damage 11 times a day, 46 str, +7 weapon, and a power attack of 10-20 means he does some terrifying damage, with his improved threat range and x4 multiplier crits easily do 200-400 points of damage. so the class does bear some watching.

of course the sorceres who maximizes timestop and throws down 5 maximized sonic delay blast fireballs at the begining of every fight is quite a handfull too.

so the PrC is powerful but not completely unbalanced, just pay close attention to what magical weapon you give him and all should be fine, also there's nothing quite like the look in the players eyes when their precious and essentially only weapon is sundered... finding only magic daggers for the next 2 sessions usually teaches a harsh lesson in humility for a cocky weapon master.

 

[Jeph]

I don't think the Weapon Master was ever balanced, especially with high Crit weapons (Scythe, pick, un-errataed Mercurial Greatsword). The +2 threat range combined with a huge multiplier combined with Ki Critical combined with a few Burst enchantments is nigh on unstoppable.

17-20/x5 is SCARY.

 

[Ripper-nk]

Scary yes, overpowered NO.

roll a 17-20 is not easy too. But when he hits, .

But the unbalance are in the new rules for two-handed power attack, not in the weapon master.