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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
3/4 Caster: Its Absence and Design Space in 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8394228" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>In your example: Without new abilities at 3/4, they still lag behind at 5th level when they gain 3rd level spells because they don't have 2nd level spells, either, so they cast their 3rd and 1st level spells while a Wizard is throwing 3rd and 2nd. It wouldn't "Repeat every 4 levels" it would just be a continuing weakness after 3rd level when you took something away from the class without giving them something back... which is just bad game design.</p><p></p><p>And yes... you could make them "Too Strong" at 5th level if you make their 3rd/4th level ability too strong... but that's because you didn't balance that level 3/4 ability against the loss of 2nd level spells, not because there's anything inherently bad or wrong with swapping out an increase of spellcasting availability for a separate class ability. </p><p></p><p>It's just a specific pitfall that any class design inherently has. </p><p></p><p>Making them Half-Casters also doesn't avoid these exact same pitfalls, either. "Let's just make them Half-Casters without changing anything else" will dramatically weaken the class, and making them Half-Casters and giving them too-strong class abilities to offset the loss will make them too strong at a given level.</p><p></p><p>As to replacing Depth with Breadth... The reverse, actually. At 2nd level a Bard can take buffs, debuffs, enchantments, damaging spells, control spells, illusions, divination, and communication spells. Instead of that Breadth of availability, they'd be getting a smaller number of more tailored class functions that would lean in on Buff/Debuff, Enchantment, and Illusion. </p><p></p><p>At least in my proposal.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8394228, member: 6796468"] In your example: Without new abilities at 3/4, they still lag behind at 5th level when they gain 3rd level spells because they don't have 2nd level spells, either, so they cast their 3rd and 1st level spells while a Wizard is throwing 3rd and 2nd. It wouldn't "Repeat every 4 levels" it would just be a continuing weakness after 3rd level when you took something away from the class without giving them something back... which is just bad game design. And yes... you could make them "Too Strong" at 5th level if you make their 3rd/4th level ability too strong... but that's because you didn't balance that level 3/4 ability against the loss of 2nd level spells, not because there's anything inherently bad or wrong with swapping out an increase of spellcasting availability for a separate class ability. It's just a specific pitfall that any class design inherently has. Making them Half-Casters also doesn't avoid these exact same pitfalls, either. "Let's just make them Half-Casters without changing anything else" will dramatically weaken the class, and making them Half-Casters and giving them too-strong class abilities to offset the loss will make them too strong at a given level. As to replacing Depth with Breadth... The reverse, actually. At 2nd level a Bard can take buffs, debuffs, enchantments, damaging spells, control spells, illusions, divination, and communication spells. Instead of that Breadth of availability, they'd be getting a smaller number of more tailored class functions that would lean in on Buff/Debuff, Enchantment, and Illusion. At least in my proposal. [/QUOTE]
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3/4 Caster: Its Absence and Design Space in 5E
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