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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] Archer changes
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<blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 837874" data-attributes="member: 4134"><p>I wholehartedly disagree. So the archers are stronger now. But is that a reason for making them much weaker in 3.5e? Cause that would be the case: </p><p>Now they can use twice the magic to get twice the bonus (be that 2 GMW spells - or more, for 50 arrows will hardly be enough, and the duration might not be enough - or an expensive magical weapon and even more expensive magical ammunition.), but with your change, they HAVE to use twice the magic to get THE SAME bonus as the melee fighters.</p><p></p><p>And it isn't logical, either: a magical bow adds to the power of the shot, and that means more damage (and, in the logic of D&D, a better attack bonus, for you can pierce armor easier. Plus the arrows fly faster, making it harder to doge). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So archers have no PrC's, but melee fighters do? They can take one that gives them even more in the field they are already good in (better attacks, more AC, more damage), but archers don't? Again, the wrong way to deal with the situation, for PrC's mean power, and so melee characters will start to seriously outshine archers. (Unless, you do away with those melee PrC's - and, if you're at it, with the caster PrC's!)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>About Rapid Shot vs. Two Weapon Fighting (using what we know of 3.5): </p><p></p><p>To get an additional ranged attack, the archer has to take two feats (unless they put together point blank shot and rapid shot, which I doubt, since they don't belong together), two-weapon fighting only takes one feat. Also, you can get more than 4 attacks with two-weapon fighting, for there's improved and greater two-weapon fighting, while there is no improved rapid shot, and no greater rapid shot.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with that. This way, the advantage of getting twice the enhancement bonus is taken from the archers, and the advantage of not being forced to get magical ammunition to overcome DR is taken from the melee-fighters.</p><p></p><p>I've actually thought of that, too.</p><p></p><p>Maybe the bow could even bestow all enchantments to the ammunition (so you could have a keen bow), or that would be an extra enhancement.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Our new system would render magical arrows obsolete!</p><p></p><p>What we still needed would be:</p><p>- Arrows made of a special material (e.g. arrows with an adamantine point)</p><p>- Special enchantments for arrows: keen arrows, slaying arrows, and a couple of other special arrows. They wouldn't need that +1 enhancement first, but could be as expensive as before (you still pay +2000 gm for 50 keen arrows, and since keen edge won't affect more than one arrow, you'd end up paying big money for those arrows)</p><p></p><p></p><p>3) Either reduce the number of arrows affected by GMW, or decrease the duration of the spell. [/B]</p></blockquote><p></p><p>Nope. GMW would not be needed for arrows anymore.</p><p></p><p>GMW has already been toned down, as it's +1/4 caster levels now. </p><p></p><p>The big point some people make with the +1 flaming burst acid burst bow, which becomes +5 fb ab with GMW isn't the problem of archery alone, as you can make the same with a melee weapon (and as long as you're friends with your party caster(s), noone's gonna be discriminated).</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Kae'Yoss, post: 837874, member: 4134"] I wholehartedly disagree. So the archers are stronger now. But is that a reason for making them much weaker in 3.5e? Cause that would be the case: Now they can use twice the magic to get twice the bonus (be that 2 GMW spells - or more, for 50 arrows will hardly be enough, and the duration might not be enough - or an expensive magical weapon and even more expensive magical ammunition.), but with your change, they HAVE to use twice the magic to get THE SAME bonus as the melee fighters. And it isn't logical, either: a magical bow adds to the power of the shot, and that means more damage (and, in the logic of D&D, a better attack bonus, for you can pierce armor easier. Plus the arrows fly faster, making it harder to doge). So archers have no PrC's, but melee fighters do? They can take one that gives them even more in the field they are already good in (better attacks, more AC, more damage), but archers don't? Again, the wrong way to deal with the situation, for PrC's mean power, and so melee characters will start to seriously outshine archers. (Unless, you do away with those melee PrC's - and, if you're at it, with the caster PrC's!) [B][/B] About Rapid Shot vs. Two Weapon Fighting (using what we know of 3.5): To get an additional ranged attack, the archer has to take two feats (unless they put together point blank shot and rapid shot, which I doubt, since they don't belong together), two-weapon fighting only takes one feat. Also, you can get more than 4 attacks with two-weapon fighting, for there's improved and greater two-weapon fighting, while there is no improved rapid shot, and no greater rapid shot. I agree with that. This way, the advantage of getting twice the enhancement bonus is taken from the archers, and the advantage of not being forced to get magical ammunition to overcome DR is taken from the melee-fighters. I've actually thought of that, too. Maybe the bow could even bestow all enchantments to the ammunition (so you could have a keen bow), or that would be an extra enhancement. [b][/B] Our new system would render magical arrows obsolete! What we still needed would be: - Arrows made of a special material (e.g. arrows with an adamantine point) - Special enchantments for arrows: keen arrows, slaying arrows, and a couple of other special arrows. They wouldn't need that +1 enhancement first, but could be as expensive as before (you still pay +2000 gm for 50 keen arrows, and since keen edge won't affect more than one arrow, you'd end up paying big money for those arrows) 3) Either reduce the number of arrows affected by GMW, or decrease the duration of the spell. [/B][/QUOTE] Nope. GMW would not be needed for arrows anymore. GMW has already been toned down, as it's +1/4 caster levels now. The big point some people make with the +1 flaming burst acid burst bow, which becomes +5 fb ab with GMW isn't the problem of archery alone, as you can make the same with a melee weapon (and as long as you're friends with your party caster(s), noone's gonna be discriminated). [/QUOTE]
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