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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 841330" data-attributes="member: 3146">It's somewhat interesting that all of the analyses thus far have dealt with fighter based archers and have ignored the disproportionate effects of energized or aligned weapons. (A +1 holy shock bow wielded by a 10th level character with rapid shot deals +9d6 damage in one round while a +1 Holy Shock greatsword only deals +6d6 damage in one round).They have also ignored the common practice of fighters multiclassing with barbarian and getting the ability to rage.IME, the typical 6th level grunt fighter looks more like Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Ranger 1 than Fighter 6. (And if you want a real life comparison, I'll be happy to demonstrate how a Cleric archer regularly dealt out as much damage as a 28 strength (32 when raging) half orc/half copper dragon barbarian between levels 4 and 8 (the levels we played through in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil)).Even more significantly, for a thread that is supposedly analyzing the changes in archery from 3.0e to 3.5e, it's gone remarkably off-topic.Here's my analysis of the most significant changes:1. Haste. Changing Haste changes the balance of everything in the game system. In 3e, haste was an equalizer between archery and melee combat because the extra partial action enabled the melee character to partial charge and then execute a full attack. The archer, OTOH, couldn't charge. He could move and make a full attack but got less out of haste in that case (the melee character gets the charge attack AND the full attack; the archer only gets the full attack). Usually, however, the archer just took an extra attack.In 3.5e, according to Dragon Magazine, Haste doesn't give any extra action at all--instead, it gives an extra attack on a full attack action. Consequently, any meleer not in position to make a full attack at the beginning of the round will not make a full attack. Haste doesn't help them make any more full attacks. It doesn't help archers make full attacks either, but they get to make full attacks more often.Haste is supposedly changing from a spell that equalizes the number of melee and ranged full attacks to one that exacerbates the inequality.2. Manyshot. For the rare occasions that an archer can't make a full attack, there will now be manyshot, ensuring that mid level archers can always make multiple attacks.IMO, 3.0e archery was powerful but not overpowered. OTOH, 3.5e archery looks like it will be overpowered no matter what they do to GMW and Rapid Shot. The change in haste and the addition of Manyshot to the core rules remove old balancing factors and add new inequalities to the system.</blockquote>

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