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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 844309" data-attributes="member: 307">You will have ACs running through a reasonably wide range. Even most 10th level NPC opponents are usually going to fall into the 20-25 AC range.Most 10th level fighters can reasonably expect to drop a 10th level rogue in one rounds worth of attacks, maybe two. (Average hit points for a 10th level rogue are 35, up to 45 if he has a 12-13 Constitution, up to 55 if he has a 14-15). Most melee fighters can easily dish out that level of damage in a round. Almost all can guarantee to dish that out in a round and a half.So you've dropped your shield. Leaving aside the fact that it is a move equivalent action to loose a shield (check the SRD, under Combat Actions, the action is "Loose a Shield"), you've run up to me, dropped your primary defense, and are now wielding a one handed weapon without a shield while facing me. Yeah, you've done yourself a great service there.Animated tower shields? Do all of your opponents have access to +3 equivalent magical shields on a regular basis? Even at 10th level, a 9,000 gold piece investment in a piece of equipment like that is quite a hefty amount. If your opponents are using that, then they are not going to be using magical weapons, expensive armor, or any of the other things that make them dangerous to you.If the Archer is firing from further away than you can reach, then they aren't getting the much of the benefits of the Bracers, Point Blank Shot, or Weapon Specialization, nullifying most of their benefits. At that point, the melee fighter is almost as good as the ranged fighter at ranged combat.If you use the guy in front of you for cover, then he is subject to AoOs, either that, or he had to approach in such a way as to expose himself to an extra round of attacks.Still further investment of resources. You've used up another feat, and probably invested in a cross-class skill (unless you took a level of rogue or bard, in which case you diluted your offensive capabilities). You are restricted to light encumbrance, meaning you can't carry very much, and you still have to make the Tumble skill check (which isn't all that easy if you are buying your Tumble as a cross-class skill). If you fail, you are going to be hit. Manyshot reduces your potential damage by a significant amount, since the BAB penalty is so high. Basically, you can risk getting an AoO to do less damage than you could in melee. Yipee.If he drops his bow, he's not going to be getting much benefit from being a twinked out archer now, is he?Unusable if you are wielding a bow. Your hands are occupied with the bow. If you decide to use the gauntlets to attack, you cannot use the bow, and vice versa.If you shoot and run, you are getting one shot. Or maybe more than one at a sever BAB penalty if you use Manyshot. And if you shoot and run, you once again are not getting much benefit from your "within 30 feet" feats and equipment.Oh, they will, from experience, they will.To use Hunter's Mercy, you have to have at least 4 levels of Ranger, maybe 6 (if you don't put a good score in Wisdom). That dilutes the number of feats you get by quite a bit, since you are not taking Fighter levels. And Hunters Mercy is only available in Faerun, so if you are in Greyhawk, it isn't an option.Precise shot does not negate the AC bonus from cover, not even cover provided by your own allies. It only negates the -4 penalty from firing into melee, which is different.As an adventurer you are able to set up sniping nests on a regular basis?Ceding the intiative and control of the situation to your enemies. Smart move.Arrow slits are not normally available to adventurers as a regular option.Cleave comes up anytime you are facing more than one opponent. That you are unable to figure this out is surprising, but given your lack of grasp on other rules, maybe it should not be.We are talking about who is more effective as [art of a team, and it isn't the twinked out archer.Without his bow, an archer is completely useless. Instead of being a damage causing machine, he is a liability, the qeuivalent of an NPC Warrior class cohort along for the ride.And those rules are even more disadvantageous for the archer. Gosh, that makes your case seem so much better. Not only can you break the archer's bow, but you can do it using rules that make it easier to do than when trying to break other weapons.Considering your rull of the mill opponent is running around with +3 equivalent magical shields, I don't think money is a problem.Besides, if you want to relieve an archer of his bow without breaking it, just disarm him. The opposed roll will be almost trivially easy for your typical melee combatant, given the fact that the archer is nonproficient with the bow as a melee weapon, can't use any of his ranged feats to bump his AB, and is otherwise at a huge disadvantage.As often as you drop enemies, you will be likely to Cleave. Most fighters will get an extra atack out of Cleave every second or third round at least, more in some cases.Combat Reflexes for one. Range is not that useful in most encounters, since range is closed quite quickly in most D&D combats. I think you need to brush up on the rules nuances (like what sort of action loosing a shield is) and actually engage in some combat involving well designed melee fighters for a while.</blockquote>

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