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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 844900" data-attributes="member: 2486">Having been at the receiving end of a whacked-out archer build (I was DM) with the aforesaid character dishing out 300+ points of damage per round, I will take up the case that archery is clearly more powerful than melee.First of all, I will deal quickly with Kai Lord's assertion that (e.g.) Bracers of Archery would be eschewed as a 'crutch'.  Nonsense.  PCs are likely to be 'career' soldiers, particularly high-level fighters.  They are going, generally, to rely on any and every assistance that they can.  A few eccentrics may eschew Bracers of Archery or magic bows, but these few are few for the simple reason that they usually end up dead.  When you are fighting *for your life* on a regular basis, chances are that you will take every advantage you can.  Just as modern-day snipers would be foolish to not use the most advanced targeting system they can get their hands on, DnD archers would be foolish to ignore any magical item that they can find.  Better living in the supposed 'shame' of using a crutch (though I would hardly think it thus!) than to be killed.As for the damage comparison itself, I will explain why archers will tend to outshine fighters at almost any level, low, mid or high.General Points:Archers can use bucklers.  This gives them a significant (by high-level) AC bonus over the melee fighters.Archers typically wear light armour.  This gives them a greater distance, meaning that they can easily use skirmishing tactics against melee fighters- particularly if they have Manyshot.Archers have long-range (duh).  They can avoid melee combat with slow tank monsters (e.g. golems) that you do not want to engage in melee with.  Similarly, they can take out enemy spellcasters at range.Collateral utility.  Because archers tend to have better Dex, they will have better initiative and Reflex saves than meleeists.  For his buffed Str, the meleeist only really gets a better carrying capacity, which goes obsolete at high levels due to Bags of Holding.LOW LEVELS: With the melee fighter generally getting one attack/round, Rapid Shot rules supreme at the low levels.  Only at the very lowest levels will the melee fighter tend to be better than the archer (levels 1/2) and at these levels, melee combat is so dangerous as to be avoided.  By level 3, with mighty bows and Magic Weapon starts becoming common and the tide turns.  At level 4, the archer can get much more use out of Weapon Specialisation than the meleeist by virtue of having twice as many attacks.  MID LEVELS: The mid-levels hold an interesting turn.  By the mid-levels, prestige classes begin to appear.  With the Order of the Bow Initiate, the archer becomes phenomenally powerful.  Close Combat Shot takes out of their major disadvantages and ranged sneak attack means that their initiative advantage translates into real damage.  The fighter will take, let us assume, the Weapon Master.  With hefty prerequisites, he will have to delay entry or squeeze himself through the lower levels- we will assume he delays entry.  GMW becomes to show up a significant difference by levels 6-9, with the archers gaining +2 to hit and +2 to damage over the fighter.  The +2 to hit negates the RS penalty, and the +2 damage per attack swings damage-dealing capacity in the archer's favour.  The rise of magical ascendancy through mid levels means that ranged attacks become vital, as does the plethora of high-damage short-ranged opponents in the mid-CRs and the increased frequency of flying opponents.  HIGH LEVELS: At the higher levels, Rapid Shot becomes less of a factor, but with the number of enemy hit points rising, Cleave and Great Cleave become almost useless.  However, GMW becomes a huge area of dichotomy, especially if elemental weapons are used.  A +1 bow with three elemental abilities with a +1 arrow with three elemental abilities, both enhanced to +5 using GMW, have effectively a +5 to hit and +2.5+3d6 damage lead over a +1 greatsword with three elemental abilities enhanced to +5 using GMW.  In order to equalise on damage alone, the fighter needs to have a Strength score of no less than 16 points greater than the archer.  Even if equalised per hit, he still receives one fewer hit.  Meanwhile, the Order of the Bow Initiate has come to fruition.  Within 30', not only can the OotBI gain PBS he can add his Wisdom modifier- a nice empowered buff can often guarantee another +4 to hit, ensuring even his fifth attack has a reasonable chance against most opponents.  Ranged sneak attack becomes a major factor, given the initiative dichotomy between archers and meleeists.  The Weapon Master has some nice abilities, but its incremental utility for the meleeist cannot match that of the OotBI for the archer.  Finally, the utility of long-range becomes paramount- most NPCs and significant numbers of monsters have flying capabilities, wizards can end battles with one spell and pure melee monsters dish out ridiculous quantities of damage (e.g. the tarrasque).  Indeed, against almost any type of high-level opponent, the archer fares better than the meleeist save specific anti-archer builds.At nearly every level, the archer character is of greater mechanical power than the melee fighter.  The only time that the melee fighter can hope to match the archer is at the lowest levels- beyond that, he is rapidly made redundant.</blockquote>

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