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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 851298" data-attributes="member: 307">You've got a class lying around that allows for a 4 point increase in Dexterity like the Barbarian allows for a 4 point increase in Strength? (More if you are a Frenzied berserker or high level Barbarian).Yes, they are, but the archer is much more dependent upon smaller amounts of damage per hit, making these protections more effective against his attacks.Actually, you did. When I pointed out that a wiazrd was likely to win in a ranged duel against an archer, you proudly proclaimed to inherent superiority of the archer in this regard. A claim that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny.Given that most of the wizard's defenses are precast spells, that is a dubious assumption.Comparing the average damage for the meleeist with the higher than average damage of the archer (as you do here) is poor form.Assuming each attack hits. And you roll close to maximum damage on each attack. Highly dubious assumptions on both counts. Also assuming that his opponent is vulnerable to the additional damage you throw out there.I doubt it. A good chunk of your damage is sneak attack based. Barbarians have uncanny dodge. Sorry, take out on average 55 or so points of potential damage. Assuming the barbarian is affected by holy damage is quite dubious as well. Further, your weapon is a +5 equivalent weapon (+1 base, +1 elemental, +1 elemental, +2 holy), how many 12th level characters are running around with 50,000 gp weapons?You are assuming that your 12th level character has a 26-27 Dexterity? How do you get there? Even starting at an 18 Dexterity, you need a 32,000 gp item to get up to 26 Dexterity. Since you are already assuming a 50,000 gp bow, you are assuming the character has 86,000 gp worth of items, plus another 5,100 for the Bracers. How many 12th level characters have 91,000 gp worth of items, much less 91,000 gp worth of items locked up in three items?Besides, you vastly underestimate the AC of the meleeist in this case. If we are using Magic of Faerun stuff, he's got +1 mithral full plate of nimbleness. He also has put some cash into a pair of +4 gloves of Dexterity. His cleric buddy casts magic vestment on his armor and shield (if the archer can have greater magic weapon on his bow and arrows, the meleeist can have similar buffs). Now the meleeists AC is more like 10 base + 12 armor +6 shield +5 Dexterity +3 amulet +3 ring = 39. I've spent far less money than your hypothetical archer has spent on his bow and gloves. Hitting him with your first two shots becomes much more of a 50/50 proposition (right where it is supposed to be for opponents of your CR), and subsequent shots are much less likely to score. I've probably got money left over to get moderate fortification added to my armor (+5 armor only costs 25,000 gp, half that of your bow), which has a good chance of negating your sneak attacks.8 feats is the entire allotment for a human fighter through 6th level, a significant investment. Many archers tend to also want Shot on the Run as well. Given your emphasis on going first, Improved Initiative seems like a must have. You've got a lot of feats consumed. Maybe you spend one on Weapon Finesse, maybe not, but it doesn't matter, since you are at a huge disadvantage in a grapple anyway.Sure he could, but sundering a bow is (a) an almost costless maneuver, and (b) easy for those who are not adept sunderers.The problem is that he is a huge and obvious target for these sorts of things, and once his bow is taken out of the picture, he is really crippled.It doesn't really matter if you use a greatsword or falchoin for sundering and disarming, the bonuses are exactly the same for disarming, and there is a negligible difference for sundering, so negligible that against a bow it isn't relevant.You miss the point: those are melee PrCs that are better than the Weapon Master. (Note also, the reduction in attack penalties that the Tempest gets makes the use of dual wielded longswords quite viable.To some extent, why not? Most melee specialists can switch between melee combat arms with minimal effort, a much less viable route for the bowman to take.Besides, as a bowman, you will likely face a variety of melee opponents over your career. On the whole, you are going to face all of these possible types of opponents, and most of them are going to be difficult to deal with for an archer.Given the penalty reducing abilities of the Tempest, a dual wielding longsword user is quite viable. This does not even begin to consider the possibility of using a longsword/shortsword combination, or a dual weapon.I don't know. Given that most arrowhawks are in combat encounters as a result of being summoned or called by a spellcaster, determining that they are inside or outside more often seems difficult.No, because the back rank is significantly easier to deal damage to. Soft skinned wizards, rogues and archers lurk back there. They are far easier to hit than the dedicated melee combatants. Taking them out early removes a threat quicker and easier than trying to bash the opponent's melee specialists while being peppered with arrows and spells at the same time.Sure we can, which is one of the reasons why archers are vulnerable: they are easy to neutralize with simple spells.Um, yeah, since the Tarrasque has the "Rush" special ability.Your 12th level character is fighting a dire tiger (a CR 8 opponent) when it is on its own? And you wonder why that is a pushover? I think you are much more likely to see one in conjunction with a druid, in which case it will have greater magic fang.Grey Renders are symbiotic creatures (and CR 8 to boot). Your 12th level archer should find them in conjunction with other opponents, likely in conjunction with one or more spellcasters who may very well buff it up.Most mid to high level opponents should have magical resources, even if it is in the form of a couple of "tribal shaman" adepts for humanoid opponents, or allied spell using creatures.</blockquote>

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