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<blockquote data-quote="Benimoto" data-source="post: 4435301" data-attributes="member: 40093">Before 4th edition came out, I DMed my 3.5 campaign all the way to 20th level.&nbsp; I saw most of the previously mentioned breakdowns.&nbsp; Combats would take 30 minutes to prepare, last 90 minutes in real time but only go 2 rounds in the game.&nbsp; I felt the need to constantly monitor and negotiate the inclusion of splatbook material with my players.&nbsp; Also, I saw a few problems that I don't think have been addressed yet.One was only a problem for one or two of my players, but occasionally the amount of choices they had would overwhelm them for a minute or two on their turn.&nbsp; Spontaneous casters were particularly prone to this.&nbsp; By 18-20th level, they have a massive list of spells, several metamagic feats to modify those spells, and then equipment to further modify the spells on top of that.And then of course, after you cast the spell, you have to add up all the dice and do all the math on it.&nbsp; That can end up as a giant, mostly meaningless waste of time.&nbsp; This would happen to even the fighters, since with all the energy enchants, bane enchantments and other stuff, every sword hit can involve 4-6 dice, and you can get 5 or even up to 10 attacks on your turn.And, like all the other people chiming in, I had trouble keeping up with the amount of monster stats required.&nbsp; And they were completely required.&nbsp; I can't really just turn to the Monster Manual and pick out a random CR 17 creature.&nbsp; There's only 5 CR 17 creatures in the book!&nbsp; Nor is fudging on the fly always the answer.&nbsp; For many combats, I had like 3 different types of enemies fighting at once.&nbsp; As a made-up but plausible example, a combat might involve a Rakshasa Sorcerer 6, two Archer Demon Fighter 7s and two 18 HD Chuuls.&nbsp; &quot;Just fudge it&quot; is going to lead to inconsistent and frankly amateurish results.&nbsp; Sure I can ignore the skill points, but there are spells, feats, saves and all that other stuff that I don't want to have to keep in my head.The campaign was a whole lot of fun, but when I read the 4th edition books, I knew I would never go back to 3.5, at least at high levels.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Benimoto, post: 4435301, member: 40093"] Before 4th edition came out, I DMed my 3.5 campaign all the way to 20th level. I saw most of the previously mentioned breakdowns. Combats would take 30 minutes to prepare, last 90 minutes in real time but only go 2 rounds in the game. I felt the need to constantly monitor and negotiate the inclusion of splatbook material with my players. Also, I saw a few problems that I don't think have been addressed yet. One was only a problem for one or two of my players, but occasionally the amount of choices they had would overwhelm them for a minute or two on their turn. Spontaneous casters were particularly prone to this. By 18-20th level, they have a massive list of spells, several metamagic feats to modify those spells, and then equipment to further modify the spells on top of that. And then of course, after you cast the spell, you have to add up all the dice and do all the math on it. That can end up as a giant, mostly meaningless waste of time. This would happen to even the fighters, since with all the energy enchants, bane enchantments and other stuff, every sword hit can involve 4-6 dice, and you can get 5 or even up to 10 attacks on your turn. And, like all the other people chiming in, I had trouble keeping up with the amount of monster stats required. And they were completely required. I can't really just turn to the Monster Manual and pick out a random CR 17 creature. There's only 5 CR 17 creatures in the book! Nor is fudging on the fly always the answer. For many combats, I had like 3 different types of enemies fighting at once. As a made-up but plausible example, a combat might involve a Rakshasa Sorcerer 6, two Archer Demon Fighter 7s and two 18 HD Chuuls. "Just fudge it" is going to lead to inconsistent and frankly amateurish results. Sure I can ignore the skill points, but there are spells, feats, saves and all that other stuff that I don't want to have to keep in my head. The campaign was a whole lot of fun, but when I read the 4th edition books, I knew I would never go back to 3.5, at least at high levels. [/QUOTE]

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