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3.5 Bull's Strength
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 940973" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>This is pretty much exactly opposite to my instincts as a player. As a cleric, I wouldn't get Cat's Grace and if I did, I probably wouldn't be able to use the increased dexterity too much due to armor (well my archer cleric would have but not my melee cleric). And I don't think any of my characters would be comfortable relying on Endurance for con when they had the money for an item--endurance would make too much ride on not getting dispelled. They might choose strength buffs for the savings but even those start to get a little iffy.</p><p></p><p>Polymorph would be a separate problem altogether. (And it's not directly a cleric problem is it--after all, it's not on their list).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmmm. The cleric in my group was more than happy to start buffing the fighter as soon as he had a quality fighter in his group--he figured that if he got to be the healer instead of the one going up against the summoned Dire tigers, he'd be safer and happier.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This seems to somewhat undercut your argument. If the buff spells make such a difference then dispelling would usually be a very good tactic and might even contribute to killing them directly. (In fact, against a cleric suspected to have even normal endurance running--let alone multiply empowered endurance spells--a Dispel Magic is likely to do at least as much effective damage as a fireball or ice storm in addition to its other debilitating effects).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well there'd still be room for greater dispelling since it effects more things than Dispel Magic (Bestow Curse for instance) and can dispel a 20th level caster's spell (which Dispel Magic can't ever do) but you've got me there. Maximize does specifically prohibit dispel magic (so much for one of the few situations I could see it being better than empower which is also specifically prohibited from working on Dispels).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 940973, member: 3146"] This is pretty much exactly opposite to my instincts as a player. As a cleric, I wouldn't get Cat's Grace and if I did, I probably wouldn't be able to use the increased dexterity too much due to armor (well my archer cleric would have but not my melee cleric). And I don't think any of my characters would be comfortable relying on Endurance for con when they had the money for an item--endurance would make too much ride on not getting dispelled. They might choose strength buffs for the savings but even those start to get a little iffy. Polymorph would be a separate problem altogether. (And it's not directly a cleric problem is it--after all, it's not on their list). [b][/b] Hmmm. The cleric in my group was more than happy to start buffing the fighter as soon as he had a quality fighter in his group--he figured that if he got to be the healer instead of the one going up against the summoned Dire tigers, he'd be safer and happier. [b][/b] This seems to somewhat undercut your argument. If the buff spells make such a difference then dispelling would usually be a very good tactic and might even contribute to killing them directly. (In fact, against a cleric suspected to have even normal endurance running--let alone multiply empowered endurance spells--a Dispel Magic is likely to do at least as much effective damage as a fireball or ice storm in addition to its other debilitating effects). [b][/B] Well there'd still be room for greater dispelling since it effects more things than Dispel Magic (Bestow Curse for instance) and can dispel a 20th level caster's spell (which Dispel Magic can't ever do) but you've got me there. Maximize does specifically prohibit dispel magic (so much for one of the few situations I could see it being better than empower which is also specifically prohibited from working on Dispels). [/QUOTE]
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