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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Krinkle" data-source="post: 1080824" data-attributes="member: 12788">In some cases a +20 circumstance bonus would be just fine. I'm just not convinced that the "Taking 20" rule is the way to get you there. Rather, you should just give a +20 CB. It doesn't seem useful to sometimes allow a character to take 20 (Like when a small unit of soldiers are spending hours trying to find the optimal place for an ambush) to and to sometimes apply a circumstance bonus (a bush on barren hill). Why not just give the soldiers a CB of +20 rather than letting them take 20? That way you can tailor it to the situation. A forest? +20. A dreary, dark swamp? +30. A desert? +0. I agree that the example with the soldiers isn't the same as "staring for 2 minutes." Nor is it the same as "trying until you get it right." I dislike taking 20 for hide for two reasons. First, I think it violates the letter, and more importantly, the spirit, of the Take 20 rule. It just isn't that same as opening a lock, or lighting a lighter thats almost out of fluid, or opening a child-proof bottle of medicine. Second, an arbitray 20 takes away from the ability of the DM to consider the environment and also doesn't encourage the player to use his environment when he uses the skill. Circumstance Bonuses, properly used, encourage the character to use the story and setting, rather than a semantic interpretation of the SRD, when making decisions. It the difference between a character saying " I'm hiding under the bed of the Demon Queen of All That is Lewd and Carnal(tm). Can I take 20? And "Can I get a circumstance bonus to my Hide if I use Bluff and Disguise to look like a dust bunny and used Kleenex?"</blockquote>

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