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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5625667" data-attributes="member: 35909">What class level is the were-ape, and why is hp so much lower?&nbsp; Scent doesn't matter for sneaking up, Combat Reflexes lets you AoO flatfooted anyway.&nbsp; Also, with lycanthropes, for the animal HD portion of the build, you are REQUIRED to take the animal's feats as your own.&nbsp; If they have more than the animal has the HD to take, any extras become bonus feats.&nbsp; This cuts into your feat selection somewhat.Under creating a lycanthrope:&quot;FeatsAdd the base animal’s feats to the base creature’s. If this results in a lycanthrope having the same feat twice, the lycanthrope gains no additional benefit unless the feat normally can be taken more once, in which case the duplicated feat works as noted in the feat description. This process may give the lycanthrope more feats than a character of its total Hit Dice would normally be entitled to; if this occurs, any &quot;extra&quot; feats are denoted as bonus feats.&quot;Now, you start off level 1 (or higher) with class levels, so your starting feats aren't hit.&nbsp; An ape has 4 HD and two feats (Alertness and Toughness).&nbsp; So if you went Fighter 1 / Ape 4...which is the only way you can go to start at level 7 (with the +2 LA, you're up to level 7 then), you'd get your level 1 feats, whatever you like, then your only other feats would be Iron Will (lycanthrope bonus), Alertness, and Toughness.&nbsp; One of the latter two becoming a racial bonus feat.Ape would give you... Large size, +10 str, +4 dex, +4 con (and the +2 wis all 'thropes get), and +5 natural armor after the +2 bonus from the template, not bad.I would start out as a Dwarf or Orc Fighter 1.&nbsp; That way you have enough feats to get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip starting out.&nbsp; Then next level, go Fighter 2 for Combat Reflexes, and since it's your 6th HD, you also get a feat...spiked chain proficiency.&nbsp; From there, go Barbarian.Also, is the polymorph idea out?&nbsp; Because I stil think that's a better idea than either of these.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5625667, member: 35909"] What class level is the were-ape, and why is hp so much lower? Scent doesn't matter for sneaking up, Combat Reflexes lets you AoO flatfooted anyway. Also, with lycanthropes, for the animal HD portion of the build, you are REQUIRED to take the animal's feats as your own. If they have more than the animal has the HD to take, any extras become bonus feats. This cuts into your feat selection somewhat. Under creating a lycanthrope: "Feats Add the base animal’s feats to the base creature’s. If this results in a lycanthrope having the same feat twice, the lycanthrope gains no additional benefit unless the feat normally can be taken more once, in which case the duplicated feat works as noted in the feat description. This process may give the lycanthrope more feats than a character of its total Hit Dice would normally be entitled to; if this occurs, any "extra" feats are denoted as bonus feats." Now, you start off level 1 (or higher) with class levels, so your starting feats aren't hit. An ape has 4 HD and two feats (Alertness and Toughness). So if you went Fighter 1 / Ape 4...which is the only way you can go to start at level 7 (with the +2 LA, you're up to level 7 then), you'd get your level 1 feats, whatever you like, then your only other feats would be Iron Will (lycanthrope bonus), Alertness, and Toughness. One of the latter two becoming a racial bonus feat. Ape would give you... Large size, +10 str, +4 dex, +4 con (and the +2 wis all 'thropes get), and +5 natural armor after the +2 bonus from the template, not bad. I would start out as a Dwarf or Orc Fighter 1. That way you have enough feats to get Combat Expertise and Improved Trip starting out. Then next level, go Fighter 2 for Combat Reflexes, and since it's your 6th HD, you also get a feat...spiked chain proficiency. From there, go Barbarian. Also, is the polymorph idea out? Because I stil think that's a better idea than either of these. [/QUOTE]

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