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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] Crit stacking?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mike Sullivan" data-source="post: 1003773" data-attributes="member: 9824"><p>Yes, I've run the numbers before and will again:</p><p></p><p>1.45 ( 5 + x) > 1.3 ( 7 + x)</p><p>7.25 + 1.45x > 9.1 + 1.3x</p><p>.15x > 1.85</p><p>x > 12.333...</p><p></p><p>Thus, in 3.0, assuming an imp crit, keen weapon for both parties, once your total damage bonus (including strength, feats, magic, etc) is +13 or greater, against an opponent susceptible to critical hits, it's advantageous to use a scythe or falchion over a greatsword.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In 3.5, the equation is:</p><p></p><p>1.3 ( 5 + x) > 1.2 (7 + x)</p><p>6.5 + 1.3x > 8.4 + 1.2x</p><p>.1x > 1.9</p><p>x > 19</p><p></p><p>Thus, in 3.5, assuming either imp. crit or keen for both parties, once your total damage bonus (including strength, feats, magic, etc) is +20 or greater, against an opponent susceptible to critical hits, it's advantageous to use a scythe or falchion over a greatsword.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For rapiers/picks vs. longswords:</p><p></p><p>3.0:</p><p></p><p>1.45 ( 3.5 + x) > 1.3 (4.5 + x)</p><p>5.075 + 1.45x > 5.85 + 1.3x</p><p>.15x > .775</p><p>x > 5.16666...</p><p></p><p>So it's advantageous once your damage bonus is +6 or higher. (Assuming all the conditions spelled out above).</p><p></p><p></p><p>3.5:</p><p></p><p>1.3 ( 3.5 + x) > 1.2 (4.5 + x)</p><p>4.55 + 1.3x > 5.4 + 1.2x</p><p>.1x > .85</p><p>x > 8.5</p><p></p><p>So it's advantageous once your damage bonus is +9 or higher. (Again, assuming all the conditions).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that's the best way to get the comparison you're looking for -- basically, you need to get an additional +3 to damage for a rapier or heavy pick, or a +7 to damage for a falchion or scythe. Note that these are the minimum damage bonuses for it to EVER make sense to use the better-crit weapons. It's still arguably a bad idea to use a rapier if your damage bonus is +10 in 3.5, because you'll do, on average, about .15 hp more damage per attack against an opponent susceptible to crits, but -1 hp less damage per attack against an opponent not susceptible to crits.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: The other way of saying this is that the effective damage output of high-crit weapons (rapier, picks, etc) was reduced by 15%, the effective damage output of medium-crit weapons (longsword, battleaxe) was reduced by 10%, and the effective damage output of low-crit weapons (clubs, fists) was reduced by 5%. Assuming that you'd bother to get both keen and imp. critical for the 3.0 version of each such weapon.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mike Sullivan, post: 1003773, member: 9824"] Yes, I've run the numbers before and will again: 1.45 ( 5 + x) > 1.3 ( 7 + x) 7.25 + 1.45x > 9.1 + 1.3x .15x > 1.85 x > 12.333... Thus, in 3.0, assuming an imp crit, keen weapon for both parties, once your total damage bonus (including strength, feats, magic, etc) is +13 or greater, against an opponent susceptible to critical hits, it's advantageous to use a scythe or falchion over a greatsword. In 3.5, the equation is: 1.3 ( 5 + x) > 1.2 (7 + x) 6.5 + 1.3x > 8.4 + 1.2x .1x > 1.9 x > 19 Thus, in 3.5, assuming either imp. crit or keen for both parties, once your total damage bonus (including strength, feats, magic, etc) is +20 or greater, against an opponent susceptible to critical hits, it's advantageous to use a scythe or falchion over a greatsword. For rapiers/picks vs. longswords: 3.0: 1.45 ( 3.5 + x) > 1.3 (4.5 + x) 5.075 + 1.45x > 5.85 + 1.3x .15x > .775 x > 5.16666... So it's advantageous once your damage bonus is +6 or higher. (Assuming all the conditions spelled out above). 3.5: 1.3 ( 3.5 + x) > 1.2 (4.5 + x) 4.55 + 1.3x > 5.4 + 1.2x .1x > .85 x > 8.5 So it's advantageous once your damage bonus is +9 or higher. (Again, assuming all the conditions). I think that's the best way to get the comparison you're looking for -- basically, you need to get an additional +3 to damage for a rapier or heavy pick, or a +7 to damage for a falchion or scythe. Note that these are the minimum damage bonuses for it to EVER make sense to use the better-crit weapons. It's still arguably a bad idea to use a rapier if your damage bonus is +10 in 3.5, because you'll do, on average, about .15 hp more damage per attack against an opponent susceptible to crits, but -1 hp less damage per attack against an opponent not susceptible to crits. EDIT: The other way of saying this is that the effective damage output of high-crit weapons (rapier, picks, etc) was reduced by 15%, the effective damage output of medium-crit weapons (longsword, battleaxe) was reduced by 10%, and the effective damage output of low-crit weapons (clubs, fists) was reduced by 5%. Assuming that you'd bother to get both keen and imp. critical for the 3.0 version of each such weapon. [/QUOTE]
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[3.5] Crit stacking?
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