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<blockquote data-quote="On Puget Sound" data-source="post: 5685815" data-attributes="member: 68988">One major difference, and it seems to me the one that more people get outraged about (in both directions) than any other, is where the two systems fall on the &quot;fluff vs crunch&quot; axis.In 3.x, a spell or effect is defined by what it does... a fireball makes a huge blast of fire, a rogue stabs an unsuspecting opponent in a vital spot.&nbsp; Then the game applies that description to the game world, and has to come up with rules for how the described effect interacts with various situations.&nbsp; Does a fireball work underwater?&nbsp; Do zombies have vital spots?&nbsp; This resulted in a very complex and very real-feeling world.In 4.0, a spell or effect is defined in game terms -&nbsp; a fireball does so many dice of fire damage in this area, a rogue deals extra dice when he or she has combat advantage.&nbsp; These effects are reliably applied in nearly all situations; if your attack says you knock an opponent prone, then the opponent loses its move action &quot;standing up&quot;, never mind that it's flying, or a snake, or a gelatinous cube.&nbsp; It's up to the player or the GM to describe how exactly that happens, though many groups just assume &quot;it's magic&quot; and move on.&nbsp; This results in a very fair game.A monster may be immune to fire or poison, but that is rare, and a monster will never be &quot;immune to sneak attacks&quot; or &quot;magic-proof&quot; or otherwise gimp a class's only way to fight it.&quot;Save or die&quot; effects are nearly gone, and typically require 3 failed saves to kill you, offering time to try to solve the problem.&nbsp; Recovery from even the worst effects is gentler than previous editions - no permanent level drain or stat loss, and even rust monsters give you back the value of the items they ate when you kill them.I also disagree with some of the statements about Essentials vs PH1 classes.&nbsp; Switching powers and feats between them, to the extent allowed by the rules, works just fine.&nbsp; Sorting it all out without the Character Builder is hard; with the program, you won't even know you're taking powers from both sources.&nbsp; The most confusing one may be: Rangers have 7 builds - archer, marauder, 2 blade, beastmaster, scout, hunter, and hunter (no, I didn't stutter). Archer and 2 blade are in PH1, beastmaster is in Martial Power, marauder and hunter are in Martial Power 2, and scout and the other hunter are in Essentials.&nbsp; All of the builds can poach from one another, but the non-AEDU structure of the Essentials ones limits the poaching somewhat.OK, I take it back, warlocks are more confusing; I think we are up to 13 builds now (an excellent number for warlocks).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="On Puget Sound, post: 5685815, member: 68988"] One major difference, and it seems to me the one that more people get outraged about (in both directions) than any other, is where the two systems fall on the "fluff vs crunch" axis. In 3.x, a spell or effect is defined by what it does... a fireball makes a huge blast of fire, a rogue stabs an unsuspecting opponent in a vital spot. Then the game applies that description to the game world, and has to come up with rules for how the described effect interacts with various situations. Does a fireball work underwater? Do zombies have vital spots? This resulted in a very complex and very real-feeling world. In 4.0, a spell or effect is defined in game terms - a fireball does so many dice of fire damage in this area, a rogue deals extra dice when he or she has combat advantage. These effects are reliably applied in nearly all situations; if your attack says you knock an opponent prone, then the opponent loses its move action "standing up", never mind that it's flying, or a snake, or a gelatinous cube. It's up to the player or the GM to describe how exactly that happens, though many groups just assume "it's magic" and move on. This results in a very fair game. A monster may be immune to fire or poison, but that is rare, and a monster will never be "immune to sneak attacks" or "magic-proof" or otherwise gimp a class's only way to fight it. "Save or die" effects are nearly gone, and typically require 3 failed saves to kill you, offering time to try to solve the problem. Recovery from even the worst effects is gentler than previous editions - no permanent level drain or stat loss, and even rust monsters give you back the value of the items they ate when you kill them. I also disagree with some of the statements about Essentials vs PH1 classes. Switching powers and feats between them, to the extent allowed by the rules, works just fine. Sorting it all out without the Character Builder is hard; with the program, you won't even know you're taking powers from both sources. The most confusing one may be: Rangers have 7 builds - archer, marauder, 2 blade, beastmaster, scout, hunter, and hunter (no, I didn't stutter). Archer and 2 blade are in PH1, beastmaster is in Martial Power, marauder and hunter are in Martial Power 2, and scout and the other hunter are in Essentials. All of the builds can poach from one another, but the non-AEDU structure of the Essentials ones limits the poaching somewhat. OK, I take it back, warlocks are more confusing; I think we are up to 13 builds now (an excellent number for warlocks). [/QUOTE]

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