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<blockquote data-quote="Rechan" data-source="post: 5685863" data-attributes="member: 54846"><p>There are some philosophical and rules based differences between 3e and 4e.</p><p></p><p><strong>Grid Based Combat</strong></p><p></p><p>The system requires a grid. There's no way to fudge it. Spells/powers et al refer to distances in terms of squares, not feet. </p><p></p><p><strong>Fights last the same amount of time, but are more rounds</strong></p><p></p><p>Fights in 3e and 4e usually last around 30-45 minutes. The difference is that in 3e they usually last only 2 rounds. In 4e they usually last around 5-6. So in a way more stuff happens. </p><p></p><p><strong>You don't need universal rules for that</strong></p><p></p><p>Do you want a statue in a room that grants those around it Resist 5 (which works like DR)? You can. You just have to say that statue is special; you don't have to justify it with what magic was cast on it. If you want an effect, if you want a monster to have an ability, you just give it to them.</p><p></p><p>In 3e, monsters had abilities PCs could likely get. Furthermore, all NPC skills/stats/abilities were basically based around a strong formula and if they had class levels they operated like PCs. You had to account for their skill points and spell slots. </p><p></p><p>But in 4e, the only formula present is the monster's role (a lot like it's class; what it does in combat) which dictates its HP, Defenses, the attack bonus and the damage its abilities can do. That's it. If you want an enemy mage, you don't have to look through wizard powers, just give them a few powers that feel "Mage" like. </p><p></p><p>This often can mean that you have rules for situations but that situation is special. This monster does something no other monster can do, so the rules for it is special. Swallow Whole works different ways for different monsters.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to skills, if you need a weak NPC who has a great set of Knowledge skills, you don't have to level them to determine what their skills are - you just tack on a number that feels satisfying and go. </p><p></p><p><strong>The Rules are Combat vs. Non-Combat</strong></p><p></p><p>Monster statblocks <a href="http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20110520" target="_blank">are smaller</a>, intent to fit on a single index card. All the relevant rules to a monster's power is in the statblock, so you don't have to look up how that ability works anywhere else in the books. Even higher level spellcasters have about as many powers as this monster does, all the relevant information for the spell is there in the statblock, and that's it. If it has some buffs running, just include that in the stats and don't bother accounting for a spell cast before combat. All of this makes monsters easier to prep and run in a combat because all the stuff is small.</p><p></p><p>Non-combat abilities do not go on the statblock; the statblock is just the monster's combat stats. <em>But what about non-combat abilities?</em> Well, just like monster abilities - the monster just has them. Do you want a Pit Fiend with scrying and the ability to make a volcano erupt? He just can. That's a non-combat spell - a Ritual. </p><p></p><p>PCs have Rituals too. These are your "Identify magic item", your "Tensor's floating disks" etc. PCs also get non-combat powers (known as Utilities) which have a lot of your various non-combat spells (Charm Person for instance, or invisibility). </p><p></p><p>Aside from Rituals, all effects have only a few durations. Either: End of your Next Turn, Sustain (you spend an action every round to keep this power going), or until the End of the Encounter (until the fight ends). No more tracking spell duration by minutes or rounds. </p><p></p><p>Because monsters are simpler, and also tougher (Standard monsters have the same HP as PCs) then a typical combat will involve several monsters. 1 Standard Monster = 1 PC. The XP for this is easier to calculate, and each encounter assumes this, so it's easier than figuring CR/EL.</p><p></p><p><strong>Everything Works, Except for Exceptions</strong></p><p></p><p>All effects occur in all cases, unless there's an ability that says otherwise. For instance. A PC can knock an ooze prone. How does that work? Well in game terms, it doesn't matter what the effect <em>looks like</em> - it just is subject to the effects of Prone (-2 to attacks, -2 to AC/defenses, can't move, need a move action to 'stand up'). Within the context of the scene, the ooze could have been splattered into little pieces and has to spend a move action to pull itself together, or its membrane was breached and it 'deflated' or lost consistency. The description is up to you, but the effect, in game terms, occurs.</p><p></p><p>This is important because many monsters have corner cases that in one instance, they can break a rule. For instance you <em>could</em> have a monster that says 'Can't be knocked prone'. Thus it gets to break the rules.</p><p></p><p><strong>You explain it</strong></p><p></p><p>The above is pretty much involved with players and monster abilities alike. You get the game rules, and (in PC power cases) a fluff text, but what it <em>looks like in action</em> is up to you. In some cases this is called reskinning - using the stats for one thing but describing it as another. One person on this board used a Telekinetic Psion and described him as a wind wizard - all his powers were gusts of wind, tornados and the like. He was just using a different class's rules to do it. </p><p></p><p><strong>You <em>don't</em> have to use it</strong></p><p></p><p>You saw 5 alignments. Well, the alignments are unrelated to mechanics - there are no mechanics that deal with alignment. So you could use the 9 alignments if you want, or not bother with alignment at all - either way, it will have no impact on the game.</p><p></p><p>The same with the cosmology - you could use the 4e planes, or use the Great Wheel - it has no baring on the rules.</p><p></p><p>The PHB has some races that you might consider crazy. The PHB3 has Psionics. You, as the DM, can say "No, we won't use those races/classes" and that won't destroy the game. </p><p></p><p>If you want to play in a world that's low magic, you can easily do something to the rules so PCs get the bonuses from magical items without having magical items. This way the attack/defenses don't lag, but they just don't have tons of magical items.</p><p></p><p><strong>Grapple is easier</strong></p><p></p><p>Grapple is simple. It's just a straightforward attack that immobilizes an opponent (They can't move to any other square). To escape a grab, you need to roll athletics or acrobatics against an enemy's fortitude or reflex. Few monsters impose penalties to escaping the grab, so there's none of this 'it's impossible to escape a grapple from a Large monster'. Many monsters impose grab if their attack hits, and then they have abilities that depend on a target being grabbed.</p><p></p><p><strong>On Classes and Characters</strong></p><p></p><p>I know that you're going to DM, and everyone here is talking about classes. I want to just say a little bit about classes/players, because as the DM, you're going to have to deal with transitioning your group and also dealing with PCs. </p><p></p><p>1) PC classes have a <em>role</em>. A role is basically "What does this class do best in combat?" In past editions for a large part, that meant 'kill the enemy fast'. But there's more to it than that. There has always been 'put the mage in the back ranks, let the fighter take the abuse'. Now, the fighter (and other defenders) can do that easier, by giving monsters a reason to attack them. Wizards (and other controllers) are about debuffs and otherwise messing with enemy tactics. Leaders are about party buffs and otherwise group synergy. Strikers kill monsters fast - they do lots of damage.</p><p></p><p>This also means that PC classes are meant to work as a team, as many powers compliment one another.</p><p></p><p>2) PCs are more durable. They have more healing and more hit points, so even first level PCs have enough to survive a few hits before going down. A single crit will not kill them. </p><p></p><p>3) PCs have more to do. Even Clerics and other leaders can heal, move, <em>and</em> attack in a single round. Even Fighters are doing more than just 'I attack with my sword'. Once per encounter they can attack everyone around them as though they had Whirlwind, or they might do twice the amount of damage and knock an enemy prone, etc. Everyone also gets a "Daily" power. </p><p></p><p>Often the complaint then is "Every character is a wizard", that every player has too many choices at character creation and too many each round. For the players that like to just swing their sword or not worry about powers, this is for the most part what the Essentials are for - they make more simpler, direct classes. Also the Essentials non-magical classes (Fighter, Rogue, ranger) do not have Daily powers - the presence of daily powers bothered some people because 'why can you only do something once a day that isn't magic?'</p><p></p><p>Sidenote: The wizard in the PHB1 is likely going to tick off most players used to playing 3e wizards. And the Wizard in the PHB1 is IMO weak and unsatisfying. The Essentials Wizard feels more like a Real wizard and has more flexibility and room to strut. The Essentials wizard also is the first printing of Charmed Person (called Instant Friends).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rechan, post: 5685863, member: 54846"] There are some philosophical and rules based differences between 3e and 4e. [B]Grid Based Combat[/B] The system requires a grid. There's no way to fudge it. Spells/powers et al refer to distances in terms of squares, not feet. [b]Fights last the same amount of time, but are more rounds[/b] Fights in 3e and 4e usually last around 30-45 minutes. The difference is that in 3e they usually last only 2 rounds. In 4e they usually last around 5-6. So in a way more stuff happens. [B]You don't need universal rules for that[/B] Do you want a statue in a room that grants those around it Resist 5 (which works like DR)? You can. You just have to say that statue is special; you don't have to justify it with what magic was cast on it. If you want an effect, if you want a monster to have an ability, you just give it to them. In 3e, monsters had abilities PCs could likely get. Furthermore, all NPC skills/stats/abilities were basically based around a strong formula and if they had class levels they operated like PCs. You had to account for their skill points and spell slots. But in 4e, the only formula present is the monster's role (a lot like it's class; what it does in combat) which dictates its HP, Defenses, the attack bonus and the damage its abilities can do. That's it. If you want an enemy mage, you don't have to look through wizard powers, just give them a few powers that feel "Mage" like. This often can mean that you have rules for situations but that situation is special. This monster does something no other monster can do, so the rules for it is special. Swallow Whole works different ways for different monsters. When it comes to skills, if you need a weak NPC who has a great set of Knowledge skills, you don't have to level them to determine what their skills are - you just tack on a number that feels satisfying and go. [B]The Rules are Combat vs. Non-Combat[/B] Monster statblocks [URL="http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20110520"]are smaller[/URL], intent to fit on a single index card. All the relevant rules to a monster's power is in the statblock, so you don't have to look up how that ability works anywhere else in the books. Even higher level spellcasters have about as many powers as this monster does, all the relevant information for the spell is there in the statblock, and that's it. If it has some buffs running, just include that in the stats and don't bother accounting for a spell cast before combat. All of this makes monsters easier to prep and run in a combat because all the stuff is small. Non-combat abilities do not go on the statblock; the statblock is just the monster's combat stats. [I]But what about non-combat abilities?[/I] Well, just like monster abilities - the monster just has them. Do you want a Pit Fiend with scrying and the ability to make a volcano erupt? He just can. That's a non-combat spell - a Ritual. PCs have Rituals too. These are your "Identify magic item", your "Tensor's floating disks" etc. PCs also get non-combat powers (known as Utilities) which have a lot of your various non-combat spells (Charm Person for instance, or invisibility). Aside from Rituals, all effects have only a few durations. Either: End of your Next Turn, Sustain (you spend an action every round to keep this power going), or until the End of the Encounter (until the fight ends). No more tracking spell duration by minutes or rounds. Because monsters are simpler, and also tougher (Standard monsters have the same HP as PCs) then a typical combat will involve several monsters. 1 Standard Monster = 1 PC. The XP for this is easier to calculate, and each encounter assumes this, so it's easier than figuring CR/EL. [B]Everything Works, Except for Exceptions[/B] All effects occur in all cases, unless there's an ability that says otherwise. For instance. A PC can knock an ooze prone. How does that work? Well in game terms, it doesn't matter what the effect [I]looks like[/I] - it just is subject to the effects of Prone (-2 to attacks, -2 to AC/defenses, can't move, need a move action to 'stand up'). Within the context of the scene, the ooze could have been splattered into little pieces and has to spend a move action to pull itself together, or its membrane was breached and it 'deflated' or lost consistency. The description is up to you, but the effect, in game terms, occurs. This is important because many monsters have corner cases that in one instance, they can break a rule. For instance you [I]could[/I] have a monster that says 'Can't be knocked prone'. Thus it gets to break the rules. [B]You explain it[/B] The above is pretty much involved with players and monster abilities alike. You get the game rules, and (in PC power cases) a fluff text, but what it [I]looks like in action[/I] is up to you. In some cases this is called reskinning - using the stats for one thing but describing it as another. One person on this board used a Telekinetic Psion and described him as a wind wizard - all his powers were gusts of wind, tornados and the like. He was just using a different class's rules to do it. [B]You [I]don't[/I] have to use it[/B] You saw 5 alignments. Well, the alignments are unrelated to mechanics - there are no mechanics that deal with alignment. So you could use the 9 alignments if you want, or not bother with alignment at all - either way, it will have no impact on the game. The same with the cosmology - you could use the 4e planes, or use the Great Wheel - it has no baring on the rules. The PHB has some races that you might consider crazy. The PHB3 has Psionics. You, as the DM, can say "No, we won't use those races/classes" and that won't destroy the game. If you want to play in a world that's low magic, you can easily do something to the rules so PCs get the bonuses from magical items without having magical items. This way the attack/defenses don't lag, but they just don't have tons of magical items. [B]Grapple is easier[/B] Grapple is simple. It's just a straightforward attack that immobilizes an opponent (They can't move to any other square). To escape a grab, you need to roll athletics or acrobatics against an enemy's fortitude or reflex. Few monsters impose penalties to escaping the grab, so there's none of this 'it's impossible to escape a grapple from a Large monster'. Many monsters impose grab if their attack hits, and then they have abilities that depend on a target being grabbed. [B]On Classes and Characters[/B] I know that you're going to DM, and everyone here is talking about classes. I want to just say a little bit about classes/players, because as the DM, you're going to have to deal with transitioning your group and also dealing with PCs. 1) PC classes have a [I]role[/I]. A role is basically "What does this class do best in combat?" In past editions for a large part, that meant 'kill the enemy fast'. But there's more to it than that. There has always been 'put the mage in the back ranks, let the fighter take the abuse'. Now, the fighter (and other defenders) can do that easier, by giving monsters a reason to attack them. Wizards (and other controllers) are about debuffs and otherwise messing with enemy tactics. Leaders are about party buffs and otherwise group synergy. Strikers kill monsters fast - they do lots of damage. This also means that PC classes are meant to work as a team, as many powers compliment one another. 2) PCs are more durable. They have more healing and more hit points, so even first level PCs have enough to survive a few hits before going down. A single crit will not kill them. 3) PCs have more to do. Even Clerics and other leaders can heal, move, [I]and[/I] attack in a single round. Even Fighters are doing more than just 'I attack with my sword'. Once per encounter they can attack everyone around them as though they had Whirlwind, or they might do twice the amount of damage and knock an enemy prone, etc. Everyone also gets a "Daily" power. Often the complaint then is "Every character is a wizard", that every player has too many choices at character creation and too many each round. For the players that like to just swing their sword or not worry about powers, this is for the most part what the Essentials are for - they make more simpler, direct classes. Also the Essentials non-magical classes (Fighter, Rogue, ranger) do not have Daily powers - the presence of daily powers bothered some people because 'why can you only do something once a day that isn't magic?' Sidenote: The wizard in the PHB1 is likely going to tick off most players used to playing 3e wizards. And the Wizard in the PHB1 is IMO weak and unsatisfying. The Essentials Wizard feels more like a Real wizard and has more flexibility and room to strut. The Essentials wizard also is the first printing of Charmed Person (called Instant Friends). [/QUOTE]
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