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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenobi65" data-source="post: 2429826" data-attributes="member: 1515">Produce Flame requires an attack roll (granted, a touch attack / ranged touch attack roll).  It's not an automatic hit.  Magic Missile is automatic against most targets.  To do that 2d6+10 damage, you have to succeed on two attacks.  Also, to make those two attacks, it's a full-round action, whereas the wizard casting his Magic Missiles still has a move action left each round.2d6+10 averages 17 points.  4d4+4 (the amount a Magic Missile does for an 8th level caster) averages 14.  So, Produce Flame does a little more damage, but requires attack rolls.  Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me, and doesn't make Produce Flame seem overpowered, compared to Magic Missile.(I concede your point that Produce Flame has the advantage of being more efficient, letting you use one spell for multiple rounds of attacks.)The point he was making was you do need the feat to be effective with two Flame Blades.  Without TWF, you'd be at -6 / -10 to attack with two Flame Blades (it's treated as a scimitar, which is *not* a light weapon).  Even with TWF, you're at -4 with both attacks.Yes...over the course of five rounds.  Even with your comparison to Fireball, the Fireball will do the same damage in two fewer rounds.3d6 averages 10.5 points per round (and half of that if the target's making his saves).  It'll take multiple rounds of pounding with that to slow down anything but the most unlucky of targets.  And, that whole time, the target is able to return the favor by damaging the druid or his friends.And, you're neglecting to mention that a single Fireball can affect multiple targets.  So, trying to compare Call Lightning directly versus Fireball is spurious, unless you're always encountering solitary bad guys.(As with Produce Flame, I'll concede you the efficiency issue.)Unless they're able to get hold of dragonhide armor, druidic armor isn't that hot.  Leather?  Padded?  Hide?  (And, even if they can get dragonhide plate, they need to burn a feat to be proficient in it, because dragonhide plate is heavy armor, and druids only get light and medium proficiency for free.)  The mage armor spell looks at least as attractive, if not more, to be honest.(And, in answer to the pending question, yes, I do play a druid, and have DMed for several of them.)</blockquote>

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