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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ridley's Cohort" data-source="post: 2430308" data-attributes="member: 545">Digging yourself deeper and deeper I see.At fifth level the Druid becomes a "masssively uber" black bear.  Oooo!If you are suggesting I just do melee touch attacks with Produce Flame, then obviously you agree my wildshaping is not uber.  If you are suggesting that I do ranged touch attacks, then I have to deal with such things as cover and penalties for firing into melee.  The touch AC is going to be in the ballpark of 15-19 and is hardly a gimme.  You would know about this if you ever actually seen a Druid in play. Your argument lacks context.Magic Missile is what real wizards do when they are against something weird, e.g. incorporeal, or are biding their time, or want a sure thing in a confusing situation (e.g. the battleline has fallen apart and there are no clean LoS or AoE).  Sadly Produce Flame is a poor choice in all of the above.I mentioned the attack roll, that you seem to forget about, above.If you were a strategic thinker, you would not say such things as "only wasted 1 1st level".  My wizard (and druid) casts spells that ensure victory and I do not fret over the spell level.  The king of efficiency of which you speak is only valuable if you have many combats in the day almost every day -- which is not the norm in my experience.  (It is possible your experience is different.)  In those rare days, spellcasters usually just fall back on wands and scrolls; it is not that big a deal if you plan ahead and/or have a reasonable inkling of what will unfold in the day ahead.You are correct that the Druid excels at long leisurely battles.  Those are extremely rare in my experience, probably ~1% of the fights I see.Let's see here.  Massively powerful forms must start at 8th level, right?  So you are talking up the 7th level Druid armed with a Flame Blade that does d8+3 damage at one attack per round?  That is a sad joke.  What about TWF penalties BTW?  Ever heard of those?First of all, high Fort monsters are as common as dirt.  Deal with it.Second of all, I marvel at the quality of mind that would suggest standing next to the big dangerous monster your Druid just Entangled.  That is the stupidest tactical suggestion I have seen on these boards in a very long time.If you fight enemies that pick their nose for 5 rounds while you pound away at them, it would explain a lot about why your opinions are so off the mark.  In the games I play averaging ~8 points of damage per round  (your target will make a save sometimes) is not terrible but nothing to brag about.  Apparently your DM coddles you.It is not as if I have not tried some of the things you suggest.  But in actual play just about everything you have said is badly suboptimal because my Druid is not going to be so stupidly casual and leisurely while his friends are in danger.</blockquote>

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