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3.5 Druids - what to do about them?
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<blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 2442454" data-attributes="member: 10397"><p>Exactly. I find it very strange that someone would complain about a Druid outfightning the Fighter when the Cleric is running around out there.</p><p></p><p></p><p>the 3.5 Druid, by and large is strong but not at all overpowered. Wildshape is really not that great for melee...the ACs of most of the forms are very, very poor usualy inferior to what a Druid is liable to have anyway with Dex and even their limited armor, and the Wildshaped Druid still only has medium BAB and a d8 hit die. He gets the increased strength of a form, and the attack routines, but a fighter type of comparable level is going to have higher attack bonuses and probably more attacks. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And staying in wildshape has its disadvantages. Not being able to communicate is a biggy, also being to large to fit many places. </p><p></p><p>Another important point is that even with Natural Spell a druid is still limited by actions per round. He cant make a full attack and cast a spell in the same round (unless its a Quickened spell which takes a feat and has limitations and which any spellcaster can do).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nextly, Druids are not the equals of the other primary casting classes when it comes to spellcasting. There spell list is far smaller and considerably more limited. They have good damage spells, good buffs and pretty good healing. Many of their other spells are very specific...they work only on animals or plants or similiar things. Their damage spells are nice early on, but direct damage generally becomes very weak at high levels, and Druids severly lack the type of offensive spells that are generally most effective at high levels: Save or Die spells. Druids get Baleful Polymorph as a 5th level spell, and Finger of Death as an 8th level spell. Compare to the Cleric who has Slay Living at 5th, Destruction at 7th and Implosion at 9th level. </p><p></p><p></p><p>A Cleric on the other hand can continiously maintain a higher AC than a Wildshaped Druid and still comminciate, go wherever they normally could, and still cast spells without a feat. Likewise, a Cleric can cast a single spell and gain the BAB and HP of a fighter, along with a strength bonus, for an entire battle...truly outfightning or at least equalling the Fighter, as oposed to the Wildshaped Druid who still has inferior AC and attack bonuses. </p><p></p><p>And at mid to high levels a Cleric will outdo a Druid in magical offense as well due to their selection of powerful save or die spells and the fact that the Druid's direct damage will have become nearly useless at this point.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The only problems I have with the Druid (and the Cleric) is that as primary spellcasters they have both good Will and Fort saves, they get a d8 hit die, and they get all their spells for free automatically. And they have sole access to spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement as well which should be more widely availble. </p><p> However these things have always been aspects of the Druid, and are not new to 3.5</p><p></p><p>the 3.5 druid is strong and versatile, but its not going to equal or outdo any of the other classes at their areas of focus (unlike the Cleric which is capable of doing so)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Merlion, post: 2442454, member: 10397"] Exactly. I find it very strange that someone would complain about a Druid outfightning the Fighter when the Cleric is running around out there. the 3.5 Druid, by and large is strong but not at all overpowered. Wildshape is really not that great for melee...the ACs of most of the forms are very, very poor usualy inferior to what a Druid is liable to have anyway with Dex and even their limited armor, and the Wildshaped Druid still only has medium BAB and a d8 hit die. He gets the increased strength of a form, and the attack routines, but a fighter type of comparable level is going to have higher attack bonuses and probably more attacks. And staying in wildshape has its disadvantages. Not being able to communicate is a biggy, also being to large to fit many places. Another important point is that even with Natural Spell a druid is still limited by actions per round. He cant make a full attack and cast a spell in the same round (unless its a Quickened spell which takes a feat and has limitations and which any spellcaster can do). Nextly, Druids are not the equals of the other primary casting classes when it comes to spellcasting. There spell list is far smaller and considerably more limited. They have good damage spells, good buffs and pretty good healing. Many of their other spells are very specific...they work only on animals or plants or similiar things. Their damage spells are nice early on, but direct damage generally becomes very weak at high levels, and Druids severly lack the type of offensive spells that are generally most effective at high levels: Save or Die spells. Druids get Baleful Polymorph as a 5th level spell, and Finger of Death as an 8th level spell. Compare to the Cleric who has Slay Living at 5th, Destruction at 7th and Implosion at 9th level. A Cleric on the other hand can continiously maintain a higher AC than a Wildshaped Druid and still comminciate, go wherever they normally could, and still cast spells without a feat. Likewise, a Cleric can cast a single spell and gain the BAB and HP of a fighter, along with a strength bonus, for an entire battle...truly outfightning or at least equalling the Fighter, as oposed to the Wildshaped Druid who still has inferior AC and attack bonuses. And at mid to high levels a Cleric will outdo a Druid in magical offense as well due to their selection of powerful save or die spells and the fact that the Druid's direct damage will have become nearly useless at this point. The only problems I have with the Druid (and the Cleric) is that as primary spellcasters they have both good Will and Fort saves, they get a d8 hit die, and they get all their spells for free automatically. And they have sole access to spells like Death Ward and Freedom of Movement as well which should be more widely availble. However these things have always been aspects of the Druid, and are not new to 3.5 the 3.5 druid is strong and versatile, but its not going to equal or outdo any of the other classes at their areas of focus (unlike the Cleric which is capable of doing so) [/QUOTE]
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