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3.5 Druids - what to do about them?
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<blockquote data-quote="Merlion" data-source="post: 2442536" data-attributes="member: 10397"><p>I think you are making a mistake here. Nobody is saying the druid spell list is bad or has nothing good in it. We're disagreeing with your idea that it is as good or better than the lists of the other primary spellcasters...because it isnt. </p><p></p><p>Flame Strike is in fact more powerful than a Divine DD spell should be, but in practice as Thanee says its not really much better than Arcane evocations of equal or even lesser level. In other words its a good spell, for a Druid, but hardly causes them to outlcass the real magical damage dealers. And, as I mentioned in my last post direct damage becomes a very poor option at higher levels anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Entangle is a good spell. But, even if you figure that the Druid is always going to have plantlife to manipulate (which some times he isnt) its not neccesarily better than spells like Grease or Ray of Enfeeblement, especially since they always work.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Commune with Nature is a powerful spell, and very useful in the right circumstances (if you need to find out details about the local natural terrain)</p><p></p><p>However it is no better, and in fact a bit more specfic in nature than say Commune. Like many Druid spells, it is limited in that it only applies to nature</p><p></p><p></p><p>Every primary spellcaster gets Scrying. </p><p></p><p>as Thanee says the +4 ability score bonus spells are really quite crappy, especially in 3.5 where they dont even last any deccent amount of time. For a Druid they may have some limited use on your animal companion, but most characters are already going to have their important scores enhanced with items.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Summon Natures ally spells are good...better than the summoning spells of other classes in fact. Just like a Mage's damage spells are better than a Druid's, an a Cleric has better healing and defensive spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fire Storm is ok, but by the time you get it direct damage is going to be not so great in most circumstances. And Clerics get it to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Huh? Druids get 2 save or die spells...one as you have mentioned is Baleful Polymorph which isnt really a Save or die anyway, the other is Finger of Death which they dont get till 8th spell level.</p><p></p><p>Compare to the Cleric who has Slay Living at 5th, Destruction at 7th, Implosion at 9th and possible Domain access to Disintegrate, Wail of the Banshee, Power Word Kill etc</p><p></p><p>And of course the Wizard...Baleful Polymorph at 5th, Disintegrate at 6th, Finger of Death at 7th, Power Word Kill, Wail of the Banshee at 9th.</p><p></p><p>Druid's do not get most of the save or dies. They barely get any at all.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, and Wizards get Shapechange to, as do some Clerics. Shapechange may be a problem spell, but if so they problem is the spell itself.</p><p></p><p>Shambler is nice for creating guardians, but is hardly a combat monster of a spell.</p><p></p><p>Call Lightning Storm is a nice spell for taking out multiple lesser oponents. Its probably better than Cone of Cold at 5th, but then Cone of Cold is crap. And again, direct damage becomes pretty weak pretty quickly.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Druids are powerful spellcasters, but they lack the breadth and range of the Cleric and Wizard. To many of their spells are too conditional for them to be truly equal. That is why Druids have additional class abilities.</p><p></p><p>If you want overpowered, look at the Cleric who gets full-par primary spellcasting (and more of it than any other class in the form of their superior number of spell slots) and additional class abilities to go along with it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Merlion, post: 2442536, member: 10397"] I think you are making a mistake here. Nobody is saying the druid spell list is bad or has nothing good in it. We're disagreeing with your idea that it is as good or better than the lists of the other primary spellcasters...because it isnt. Flame Strike is in fact more powerful than a Divine DD spell should be, but in practice as Thanee says its not really much better than Arcane evocations of equal or even lesser level. In other words its a good spell, for a Druid, but hardly causes them to outlcass the real magical damage dealers. And, as I mentioned in my last post direct damage becomes a very poor option at higher levels anyway. Entangle is a good spell. But, even if you figure that the Druid is always going to have plantlife to manipulate (which some times he isnt) its not neccesarily better than spells like Grease or Ray of Enfeeblement, especially since they always work. Commune with Nature is a powerful spell, and very useful in the right circumstances (if you need to find out details about the local natural terrain) However it is no better, and in fact a bit more specfic in nature than say Commune. Like many Druid spells, it is limited in that it only applies to nature Every primary spellcaster gets Scrying. as Thanee says the +4 ability score bonus spells are really quite crappy, especially in 3.5 where they dont even last any deccent amount of time. For a Druid they may have some limited use on your animal companion, but most characters are already going to have their important scores enhanced with items. Summon Natures ally spells are good...better than the summoning spells of other classes in fact. Just like a Mage's damage spells are better than a Druid's, an a Cleric has better healing and defensive spells. Fire Storm is ok, but by the time you get it direct damage is going to be not so great in most circumstances. And Clerics get it to. Huh? Druids get 2 save or die spells...one as you have mentioned is Baleful Polymorph which isnt really a Save or die anyway, the other is Finger of Death which they dont get till 8th spell level. Compare to the Cleric who has Slay Living at 5th, Destruction at 7th, Implosion at 9th and possible Domain access to Disintegrate, Wail of the Banshee, Power Word Kill etc And of course the Wizard...Baleful Polymorph at 5th, Disintegrate at 6th, Finger of Death at 7th, Power Word Kill, Wail of the Banshee at 9th. Druid's do not get most of the save or dies. They barely get any at all. Yes, and Wizards get Shapechange to, as do some Clerics. Shapechange may be a problem spell, but if so they problem is the spell itself. Shambler is nice for creating guardians, but is hardly a combat monster of a spell. Call Lightning Storm is a nice spell for taking out multiple lesser oponents. Its probably better than Cone of Cold at 5th, but then Cone of Cold is crap. And again, direct damage becomes pretty weak pretty quickly. Druids are powerful spellcasters, but they lack the breadth and range of the Cleric and Wizard. To many of their spells are too conditional for them to be truly equal. That is why Druids have additional class abilities. If you want overpowered, look at the Cleric who gets full-par primary spellcasting (and more of it than any other class in the form of their superior number of spell slots) and additional class abilities to go along with it. [/QUOTE]
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