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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1021063" data-attributes="member: 3146">I don't think adding BAB to Sense Motive skill removes the reason to take ranks in sense motive at all. Take a situation that really happened for an example. My character (Ftr 2/Bbn 2/Clr 3) was fighting an assassin (Rog 6/Asn 3 or something like that) with a +15 bluff skill. I happen to have maxed out sense motive as a cross-class skill (because being lied to and not being able to tell gets old quickly).3.0 rules he rolls a bluff at +15 against my +6 sense motive.3.5 rules, he rolls a bluff at +15 against my +12 sense motive+BABUnder your suggested mechanic, my character would truly not have any reason to take sense motive ranks since BAB+Wis (+7) is better than his sense motive skill (+6).The 3.5e mechanic will not result in combat bluff manuevers being useless against anyone except characters with maxed sense motive skills and sense motive as a class skill. Even against the 20th level fighter who maxed out Sense Motive as a cross-class skill (+20 BAB +11 sense motive ranks +1 wisdom=+32) a 20th level rogue with maxed bluff will have a chance (+23 bluff ranks +3 charisma, +1 miscellaneous=+27) of success. And characters ought to get something out of maxing out their sense motive. . . .</blockquote>