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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IamIan" data-source="post: 2637672" data-attributes="member: 37394">forsakerI personally love the forsaker class...I always played it as the Person who tells others that magic is THE source of ALL Evil and he lives his life by example. He doesn't go around smashing all the party members magic stuff he does from time to time point out the evils / dangers / dependancy of magic... or Points out other non-magic ways of doing the same thing... He doesn't have to let people cast magic on him so his SR and saves go into effect... doesn't mean party members can't cast magic anyway... but if a Spell caster casts fireball on the fighters up front becuase he wants to kill the orcs and kills or almost kills the fighters too, those fighters would probably be mad at the spell caster too... I mean 3rd degree burns does't make too many friends... careful casting of spells is always a party plus forsaker or no...DR is the only thing lost by not destroying magic and a non-Magical DR of 3/- from Full plate Adamantine is a good substitute.. or the DR from Barbarian... or the DR from Dwarven Defender.Forsakers make great fighters SR, Fast Healing, Extra Ability scores, Natural Armor AR, Slipery Mind, D12 HP , Fighter level attack bonouses, only the monk gets better saves.... I think with the loss of heal spells the Fast heal shouldn't have the daily limit at some point like 10th Lv forsaker is Fast Heal with no daily limit.Also The forsaker's Class skill of sense motive means it is pretty easy to make a forsaker that only those who have a class skill of bluff have any chance of being able to lie to... the forsaker puts his normal and additional ability scores toward wisdom for better will saves, Sense motive checks, Listen Checks... a Human fighter Lv3 Forsaker Lv10  has +3 Ability score by Character level 12 and an additional +10 From forsaker for a total of +13 Ability score... Put that in Wisdom with a good roll to start with max the ranks = tough to beat.... In fact a +10 Ability score if all in one ability is better than any non-Epic magic can give and split at +5 & +5 for two abilities is very near the +6 from the best belt of giant strength...But a better use would be probably +13 to Str or Con... Imagine that rolled 18 Con +3 Normal Ability score increases +10 Forsaker = 31 Con at 13 th Lv... a +10 Modifier  For a Monster 3d10+10d12+130 HP for up to 280 HP and do't forget that Adamantine DR 3/- for a 13th Lv Character... and the Natural AC Forsakers get from Con Modifier means that AC Base 10 +the Full Plate Adamantine +8 Large Shield +2 Dex +1 Natural AC +10 =  31 Also Very Respectable for 13th Lv Character... Characters Unless I am mistaken Naturally heal 1 HP / Lv so we start with 13 HP per Day Natutral Healing +50% with bed rest puts it up to 19HP / Day + Forsaker Fast Heal 50 / Day = 63 to 69 HP / Day.... Which is not bad... not as good as heal spells .. but not bad... Forsaker's can be great allies to a group when the players can work together... Conflicts over players or alignments are more common and harder to get past than a forsaker class.....Now if you wanted too You could just make a Forsaker who destroyed the magic weapons and armor of his enemies in battle...  Design him to be able to attack and do damage to weapons in battle and he would be very effective and the destruction of enemy magic weapons will make it easier for the group to survive encounters... how about 1 Lv Barbarian 2 Lvs Fighter 10 lvs Forsaker now Roll 18 Str +3 Natural Ability increase +10 Forsaker = Str 31 with again a +10 Modifer Rage Gives +4 up to Str 35 and Modifier up to +12 and a Base Attack of +13 / +6 / +1 Wielding a 2-Handed Adamantine Great Axe d12  Feats: Weapon Focus , Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Cleave , Great Cleave....  Adamantine Ignores the hardness of the item he hits HE Normally Hits with +27 / +20 / +15 and does d12+18 each hit.... what if he power attacks to full.... Hits +14 / +7 / +2  and does d12+44 each hit...  up to 168 Damage per round with no criticals.... Improved Sunder gives a +4 to Hit when he attacks enemy's weapon... Great Cleave means he can try to clear the 5 foot circle around him if he downs each foe.... This version of forsaker is also great to known down doors / Walls with <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />...  Not Many walls can stand up to ~168 Damage a round for very long.... 1 foot of stone only has 90 HP...  and Adamantine ignores the hardness... Also the +4 Con from Rage means he gets +2 more Con Modifier with the Natural AR from Forsaker that means +2 Con -2 Rage to AC = no change to AC in Rage. Pluse still in full plate etc.............What about the Ober Charismatic Forsaker... 18+13 Cha = 31 with a +10 Modifier he just convinces the people in towns he goes to that magic is evil and wrong... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.............or the Ober Int Forsaker Int 31 = +10 Modifier He can know allot.... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />... the forsaker has the potential to be the smartest character in the group.... or the game for that matter...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> ...........I even once made a Forsaker Rogue ... Human Rogue 3 Levels... and then use the extra +10 Ability modifier toward Dex or Int and Suddenly the Rogue Forsaker can give any Magic Using Rogue a Run for thier money at most skills...plus is a far better fighter. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />...just my extra long 2 bits....the forsaker class can be a great asset to the group ... but it has to be played with care... and the other members of the group have to not be asses...my 2 bits.</blockquote>

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