NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="IamIan" data-source="post: 2658339" data-attributes="member: 37394">forsaker valueThis has 3 parts and is a bit long so you are warned.--------------Part #1Value of 10 lv forsaker powers+10  ability bonus  275,000 for 2 manuals of +5Spell Resistance  90,000+5 Natural Armor  50,000heal extra 50 HP per day  cure critical spell lv 4 caster lv 7 x 2000 = 56,000 / (5/2)    for 2 charges per day = 22,400DR best you can buy is mantle of faith 5/evil 76,000No way I know of to buy slippery mind.Previously forsaker’s natural weapon +5 by lv 10 was worth 50,000And that is it 563,400 …. Except forsaker is better in the following ways:#5> Slippery Mind  #4> forsaker natural weapon is any weapon he uses#3> forsaker can go above +5 natural armor#2> +10 can do two +5’s but two +5’s can not do +10 to one ability scoreand the #1> advantage of a Forsaker … is #1> forsaker powers are not lost in anti-magic field nor can they be negated by spell caster.People must not face beholders or all enemy spellcasters must be dub as rocks… negate the magic anynumber of spells will do this an anti-magic fieldturns all magic equipment off… other spells aremore permanent but must target specific items. Now by the time another character class is highenough level to buy that much the forsaker shouldeasily have been able to get the best non-magicweapons and armor.Which would cost:16,500 for adamantine full plate3,010 adamantine battle axebringing the value of the class up to :  582,910 plus the top 5plus by that level what has the forsaker done withthe rest of his money? my conclusion is that the forsaker is not going tolay the smack down on every other character but isa decent character class and is competitive withwhat other classes could get in magic.---------------Part #2As for the combat examples:Vs morhg  you seem to have forgotten how low a DCof 17 for a fort save for the paralyzing is for a14th level character… by 14th level the forsakershould have a +12 or +13 to fort saves even with nocon bonus added in…with a con of 14 the fort savewould be like +15  or better and would only failthe save on a roll of natural 1  or  a mear 5% ofthe time…. This is if it hits and as you said doesdamage past  DR …. The barbarian should be about 3points behind the forsaker meaning he needs to roll4 or better to save which means failure 20% of thetime…. So the forsaker fails 1 out of 20 thebarbarian fails 1 out of 5.As you said the umber hulk kills the barbarian butthe forsaker kills the umber hulk and then afterthe 5 rounds the forsaker’s fast healing will givehim back 35 or more HP while the barbarian staysdead.Now here is one of my own Anti-magic field spell lv 6 times caster lv 12times 2,000 use activated  = 144,000 GP Item, Nowfor 120 minutes 5 times per day a creature /character has an anti-magic field 10 feet aroundthem… anybody who gets within 10 feet sees alltheir magic stop working poof no save… So instead of trying to fight people who aredifferent the group works together as this issomething that is easy to eventually come upagainst or a rod of cancellation or negation ormagic user who casts such canceling magic…  noforsaker in the group they are in big trouble asall magic users just became nearly useless and thatlv 20 Barbarian just lost the +6 Str belt lost his+6 Con lost his +5 Armor lost his +5 weapon, losthis save bonuses, etc , etc …. He is now VERYseriously under powered compared to his foe and fornot much compared to the cost of some of hisequipment... the forsaker on the other hand haslost nothing and stays just as strong… up to lv 15or 16 forsakers have outright benefits thatovercome the loss of magic… higher levels 17+ canyes get stuff equal or possibly even betterdepending on how generous the DM is… but by lv 15+ the likely hood of running into anti-magic of onetype or another gets higher and higher… allot ofcreatures in the CR 15+ range have the use of magiccanceling magic… and when not fighting againstthings that cancel magic the forsaker is less of atarget for thieves as his stuff is worth less… andwhen not dealing with anti-magic, or thieves theforsaker is still a good fighter who if played wellshould give the group some options instead of beingdependant on magic… it should be viewed as a viableclass … but just as magic user’s shouldn’t becasting fire balls at their own group or usingdomination and mind controlling magic on othermembers of the party … or just as paladins  or goodclerics shouldn’t give away other party memberstuff for charities… or trying to convert the druidfrom his sinful ways…  or rogues shouldn’t stealfrom party members… like any character in a groupthey have to be played with at least a littleconsideration and thought… a rogue makes a poorhead to head fighter and can’t cast magic… thefighter and barbarian have poor skills still nospell casting and but are much better in a head tohead fight… sorcer / wizard / are better spellcaster’s but not head to head or skills… the restmake up middle ground compromises with some of thisand some of that… every class has limits andstrengths…. The forsaker is no different.-------------------Part# 3My 2 bits on 3.5 version of ForsakerA good conversion to 3.5 would be DR/- and devidethe amount by 2 so 5/- at lv 10 this is ascomparable to what barbarians and dwarven defendersget and should be fair.In 3.5 the forsaker’s fast heal should not have adaily limit.In 3.5 the forsaker’s natural weapon should be/magic instead of +1 and then one of theiralignment descriptors like law or chaos at +3 andthe other alignment descriptor at +5 like good orevil… forsakers can still use adamantine as anon-magic weapon and this would allow the class tostill fit in the new DR rules.Forsaker’s should have an extraordinary abilitythat allows them to sense magic or to figure out ifan item is magic no further information like typeof magic etc… is needed nor does it need to be longranged.At Epic Levels the forsaker should start generatinghis own Anti-Magic field that grows in size andpower as he advances in epic levels.My 2 bits…</blockquote>

Verification