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3.5 Improved Trip: Follow-up melee with axe?
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<blockquote data-quote="Persiflage" data-source="post: 5358281" data-attributes="member: 73597"><p>Hullo and welcome! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Yeah <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course, the wording of this feat and the description of the trip attack is written with the assumption that there are only two possibilities: tripping whilst unarmed, or tripping with a trip weapon... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /></p><p></p><p>This phrase might help a little: "you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt".</p><p></p><p>If you are making a melee attack <em>as though you hadn't made a trip attempt</em>, then you're making a melee attack in whatever way you would have done had the trip attempt not occurred. In your case, with a greataxe.</p><p></p><p>It's a Strength check for you, but it could be Strength or Dexterity on your opponent's side.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>You</em> would have the chance to make a melee attack, yes.</p><p></p><p>This is not as straightforward as I might have believed before I started looking at the situation properly. It's not in the FAQ. It's not explicitly covered - as far as I've been able to tell - in the Rules of the Game articles. However, there is one little section buried in <strong><a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a" target="_blank">All About Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two)</a></strong> that could perhaps help you out here...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If we take the above advice as Official, which your DM may or may not, the sequence of events would work like this:</p><p></p><p>1) As a free action, you take one hand off your two-handed weapon to make the trip attempt. (<strong>In the movie version</strong>, <em>you wave your axe as though about to strike, your opponent steps to avoid, you take one hand off the haft of the weapon to grab your opponent by the scruff of the neck.</em>)</p><p></p><p>2) You make the opposed check. (<strong>Movie version:</strong> <em>you try to use the momentum from your opponent's initial sidestep to throw him by the collar over your outstretched leg, whilst he tries to wriggle or rip his way out of your grasp</em>).</p><p></p><p>3) Assuming you're successful, your opponent hits the deck.</p><p></p><p>4) You shift your "tripping hand" back to the axe as a free action and attack with your axe as though you had not used your melee attack for that turn. (<strong>Movie version:</strong> <em>your opponent is hurled to the ground, and you take advantage of the fall to grab the haft of your axe and swing for real, whilst your opponent cowers and tries to roll aside...</em>)</p><p></p><p>Of course, the Improved Trip feat doesn't help you with the fact that if you fail to trip your opponent, they get a free attempt to trip you in turn. Something else to bear in mind is that unless you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you <em>don't threaten any squares</em> for the duration of your trip attempt. </p><p></p><p>Normally this wouldn't be an issue: a reactive trip attempt doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity anyway, and you can threaten again as a free action (by returning your hand to your weapon) once the sequence is resolved. However, if your opponent (or his allies) have readied actions, I'm sure there's some way that this momentary disadvantage could be exploited by a cunning DM... perhaps by having an adjacent mook stand by to grab or disarm you when you take a hand off your greataxe.</p><p></p><p>Not likely to come up often, but I thought I'd mention it... Hope all that helps! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Persiflage, post: 5358281, member: 73597"] Hullo and welcome! :) Yeah ;) Yes. Of course, the wording of this feat and the description of the trip attack is written with the assumption that there are only two possibilities: tripping whilst unarmed, or tripping with a trip weapon... :hmm: This phrase might help a little: "you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attempt". If you are making a melee attack [I]as though you hadn't made a trip attempt[/I], then you're making a melee attack in whatever way you would have done had the trip attempt not occurred. In your case, with a greataxe. It's a Strength check for you, but it could be Strength or Dexterity on your opponent's side. [I] You[/I] would have the chance to make a melee attack, yes. This is not as straightforward as I might have believed before I started looking at the situation properly. It's not in the FAQ. It's not explicitly covered - as far as I've been able to tell - in the Rules of the Game articles. However, there is one little section buried in [B][URL="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a"]All About Attacks of Opportunity (Part Two)[/URL][/B] that could perhaps help you out here... If we take the above advice as Official, which your DM may or may not, the sequence of events would work like this: 1) As a free action, you take one hand off your two-handed weapon to make the trip attempt. ([B]In the movie version[/B], [I]you wave your axe as though about to strike, your opponent steps to avoid, you take one hand off the haft of the weapon to grab your opponent by the scruff of the neck.[/I]) 2) You make the opposed check. ([B]Movie version:[/B] [I]you try to use the momentum from your opponent's initial sidestep to throw him by the collar over your outstretched leg, whilst he tries to wriggle or rip his way out of your grasp[/I]). 3) Assuming you're successful, your opponent hits the deck. 4) You shift your "tripping hand" back to the axe as a free action and attack with your axe as though you had not used your melee attack for that turn. ([B]Movie version:[/B] [I]your opponent is hurled to the ground, and you take advantage of the fall to grab the haft of your axe and swing for real, whilst your opponent cowers and tries to roll aside...[/I]) Of course, the Improved Trip feat doesn't help you with the fact that if you fail to trip your opponent, they get a free attempt to trip you in turn. Something else to bear in mind is that unless you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you [I]don't threaten any squares[/I] for the duration of your trip attempt. Normally this wouldn't be an issue: a reactive trip attempt doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity anyway, and you can threaten again as a free action (by returning your hand to your weapon) once the sequence is resolved. However, if your opponent (or his allies) have readied actions, I'm sure there's some way that this momentary disadvantage could be exploited by a cunning DM... perhaps by having an adjacent mook stand by to grab or disarm you when you take a hand off your greataxe. Not likely to come up often, but I thought I'd mention it... Hope all that helps! :) [/QUOTE]
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3.5 Improved Trip: Follow-up melee with axe?
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