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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] Invisibility and AoOs
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<blockquote data-quote="Magus Coeruleus" data-source="post: 1019596" data-attributes="member: 1704"><p>I don't think it should. After all, a creature under the effect of <em>displacement</em> "benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, <em>displacement</em> does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normall" (PHB 223). Compare with "You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment" (PHB 152). I think this clearly indicates that you can take AoO's against <em>displaced</em> creatures, even though the 50% miss chance still applies. This makes sense because you can clearly see that the creature is provoking an AoO, even if the exact location is off by a couple of feet, unlike the case with <em>invisible</em> creatures, where you can't see that the AoO-provoking action is taking place.</p><p></p><p>In response to Hyp's arguments, I'd make the following point. Consider how it would seem that <strong>certain</strong> AoO-provoking actions should provoke AoOs even if you're invisible, if it's clear enough that the action is taking place. For instance, if someone is casting a spell next to you, you don't need to see them to know this is happening; you can hear it. Ah, but now consider this: if just hearing someone cast a spell can let you take an AoO at that square, why can't someone *fake* casting a spell by uttering the verbal component without the somatic ones, so as to draw an AoO? (Perhaps the faker assumes/knows that the opponent is not quick enough to take multiple AoOs, and wants to prevent an ally's action from drawing an AoO in the same round). Clearly, you can't get an AoO just because you *think* you can! The <em>invisible</em> caster's guard is either dropped or it is not, and you need to see him or her clearly to determine that. If you want to attack someone who you *think* is casting next to you, you can't just get the AoO, because you don't have enough information to take advantage of the presumed dropping of the guard. The best you could do is ready an action to attack the square where you see or hear spellcasting. Then you're free to try and to be fooled, but to take an AoO, you need not only evidence of the dropping of the guard, but rich enough information to take advantage of it. I can't really accept the wild swing theory because I don't see people flailing their weapon around into all squares within reach, which is what you'd need to do to have any chance of accidentally AoOing someone like an <em>invisible</em> opponent who is casting a Silent spell. Perhaps in 2nd edition AD&D, with its 1 minute rounds, but in 3.x's 6 second rounds, I just can't see it.</p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p>MC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Magus Coeruleus, post: 1019596, member: 1704"] I don't think it should. After all, a creature under the effect of [I]displacement[/I] "benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, [I]displacement[/I] does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normall" (PHB 223). Compare with "You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment" (PHB 152). I think this clearly indicates that you can take AoO's against [I]displaced[/I] creatures, even though the 50% miss chance still applies. This makes sense because you can clearly see that the creature is provoking an AoO, even if the exact location is off by a couple of feet, unlike the case with [I]invisible[/I] creatures, where you can't see that the AoO-provoking action is taking place. In response to Hyp's arguments, I'd make the following point. Consider how it would seem that [B]certain[/B] AoO-provoking actions should provoke AoOs even if you're invisible, if it's clear enough that the action is taking place. For instance, if someone is casting a spell next to you, you don't need to see them to know this is happening; you can hear it. Ah, but now consider this: if just hearing someone cast a spell can let you take an AoO at that square, why can't someone *fake* casting a spell by uttering the verbal component without the somatic ones, so as to draw an AoO? (Perhaps the faker assumes/knows that the opponent is not quick enough to take multiple AoOs, and wants to prevent an ally's action from drawing an AoO in the same round). Clearly, you can't get an AoO just because you *think* you can! The [I]invisible[/I] caster's guard is either dropped or it is not, and you need to see him or her clearly to determine that. If you want to attack someone who you *think* is casting next to you, you can't just get the AoO, because you don't have enough information to take advantage of the presumed dropping of the guard. The best you could do is ready an action to attack the square where you see or hear spellcasting. Then you're free to try and to be fooled, but to take an AoO, you need not only evidence of the dropping of the guard, but rich enough information to take advantage of it. I can't really accept the wild swing theory because I don't see people flailing their weapon around into all squares within reach, which is what you'd need to do to have any chance of accidentally AoOing someone like an [I]invisible[/I] opponent who is casting a Silent spell. Perhaps in 2nd edition AD&D, with its 1 minute rounds, but in 3.x's 6 second rounds, I just can't see it. Cheers, MC [/QUOTE]
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