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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 934154" data-attributes="member: 3146">Re: Magic NEEDED to be reduced.The fighter could probably do the same or better with less expensive magic items and weaker stats--for instance 16 str +2 and a +4 belt of strength, boots of Speed, and a +3 shock greatsword. (Although he might have to go for a +2 shock greatsword if he wants a good cloak of resistance and decent armor).The wizard can get better too but I don't think that the wizard will dramatically outpace the fighter even if equal stats and gp values are used; the results your comparison seems to pretty roughly correspond to my experience: high level fighters dish out more damage to single targets than high level wizards can even if they blow every spell they've got at 2.5 spells per round. It's a more representative comparison than you give it credit for being.I'll admit that you probably can powergame wizards more than fighters--at least if you allow FRCS feats and prestige classes in your game, but I think you can power game fighters quite effectively too. Your fighter, for instance, could have dealt a good deal more damage if he'd mixed in two levels of barbarian (you could take the extra rage feat too if you want to be able to do it more than once per day). He'd get uncanny dodge too. Levels of Holy Liberator would help a lot on the defensive side. Etc. Etc. There are quite a few powerful fighter prestige classes out there (Weapon Master, Tribal Protector, Frenzied Beserker, Holy Liberator, Templar, Devoted Defender, Order of the Bow Initiate, Peerless Archer (hey if Archmage is in, Peerless Archer should be), etc).My experience is quite different. In the last 7 or 8 games I've played, the enemies have died to the fighters (sometimes the fighter/mage is a part of this) before the cleric got a chance to do much of anything. The last two mods I played, the cleric's player was complaining that everything was dead by the time his initiative came up. Granted we've never had a well-constructed blaster mage in the group but the fighter looked anything except weak.(Full disclosure: these were Living Greyhawk games, APL 10; the consistent party members were a Bbn 1/Rog 2/Ftr 4/Rgr 1/Temple Raider 2, a Ftr 2/Wiz 6/Spellsword 2 (melee focussed; Wiz 7 in the last game), and a Clr 10 (11 in the last game); some of the following characters were always present in the games but none were there for all of them: Ftr 4/Wiz 2/Rgr 1/Bbn 1 (archer), Rgr 5/Ftr 2/Deepwood Sniper 2, Ftr 2/Wiz 6 (fighter levels are for point blank and precise shot which he uses with rays), Rog 1/Wiz 8 with a Drd 5 cohort, Rog 1/Clr 7 (archer))I don't see how you can reconcile this:and this:go together. All told, I count 2 5th level spells, 3 4th level spells,  3 3rd level spells, 3 2nd level spells and a 1st level spell in the space of those 5 rounds. Now, a 10th level wizard (assuming 20 int) only has a progression of 4/4/4/3/3/2--4+1/6+1/5+1/4+1/4+1/3+1 after bonusses if he's a specialist. So the wizard in question now has:5 0-level spells, 6 1st level spells, 3 2nd level spells, 2 3rd level spells, 1 fourth level spell, and 2 5th level spells left. Sure it's an impressive amount of damage but if he's got much in the way of those utility and defensive spells you were talking about, he'd better have sunk most of his cash into wands if he wants to contribute something significant on offense again that day.Really, if a wizard can blow that many of his spells in a single encounter, they darn well ought to make a significant difference.</blockquote>

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