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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] Is every Magic Change Downward?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bauglir" data-source="post: 934388" data-attributes="member: 6982"><p>Sorcerers and bards are rumoured to be able to swap out old spells on even levels, Neverwinter Nights style. Also wizard scribing costs have been halved.</p><p></p><p>While I agree with the changes to Heal/Harm/Disintegrate and partially agree with the change to Haste (will get back to that) I feel that casters have been hit a little too hard in 3.5e.</p><p></p><p>As posts on this thread have demonstrated, <em>even with 3.0 haste</em> a wizard must volley off their entire spell repertoire for the day just to break even with the fighter. Can you really blame them for turning to save or die spells as the only viable combat options? Particularly with the removal of haste from the equation, the 'blaster mage' just isn't up to scratch as a concept.</p><p></p><p>WotC have looked at the overuse of save or die spells, and decided to weaken them through SF reduction (and through the already existing SR and high saves of monsters) when the problem was never that save or dies were overpowered as a combat option; (at least until all the DC twinks are added in - a 'basic' wizard will have a fairly low chance to get those save or dies to land, and when they are saved against they do more or less nothing..) it's that the other options just aren't up to scratch.</p><p></p><p>I may be wrong - this is my perception of the situation. If you disagree, please post some numbers.</p><p></p><p>Just to get a few of the standard issues out of the way:</p><p> - "Fireballs hit multiple targets"</p><p>Including any allies in the area, unlike say a whirlwind attack, or a great cleave.</p><p> - "The fighter is the one in danger, in melee with the monster"</p><p>The fighter has the tools to deal with this danger (good AC, HP) and the wizard is far from immune to melee, often dying in 1 round if a monster decides to dispose of them.</p><p> - "All fighters do is fight - they should be best at it"</p><p>And break in doors, and lift heavy things, and just about anything that requires a feat of strength (use your imagination). And that is only if you take your bog standard fighter. I played a fighter once (for example) that took Speak Language as a cross class skill. It was still more than enough for him to be the party linguist.</p><p> - "The wizard can do other out of combat things"</p><p>D&D is about the combat; a character that is only really useful outside of it will be dull (depending on the campaign ofc. I'm confident this is true for the majority) and most likely the role will be filled by items or an NPC cohort.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bauglir, post: 934388, member: 6982"] Sorcerers and bards are rumoured to be able to swap out old spells on even levels, Neverwinter Nights style. Also wizard scribing costs have been halved. While I agree with the changes to Heal/Harm/Disintegrate and partially agree with the change to Haste (will get back to that) I feel that casters have been hit a little too hard in 3.5e. As posts on this thread have demonstrated, [i]even with 3.0 haste[/i] a wizard must volley off their entire spell repertoire for the day just to break even with the fighter. Can you really blame them for turning to save or die spells as the only viable combat options? Particularly with the removal of haste from the equation, the 'blaster mage' just isn't up to scratch as a concept. WotC have looked at the overuse of save or die spells, and decided to weaken them through SF reduction (and through the already existing SR and high saves of monsters) when the problem was never that save or dies were overpowered as a combat option; (at least until all the DC twinks are added in - a 'basic' wizard will have a fairly low chance to get those save or dies to land, and when they are saved against they do more or less nothing..) it's that the other options just aren't up to scratch. I may be wrong - this is my perception of the situation. If you disagree, please post some numbers. Just to get a few of the standard issues out of the way: - "Fireballs hit multiple targets" Including any allies in the area, unlike say a whirlwind attack, or a great cleave. - "The fighter is the one in danger, in melee with the monster" The fighter has the tools to deal with this danger (good AC, HP) and the wizard is far from immune to melee, often dying in 1 round if a monster decides to dispose of them. - "All fighters do is fight - they should be best at it" And break in doors, and lift heavy things, and just about anything that requires a feat of strength (use your imagination). And that is only if you take your bog standard fighter. I played a fighter once (for example) that took Speak Language as a cross class skill. It was still more than enough for him to be the party linguist. - "The wizard can do other out of combat things" D&D is about the combat; a character that is only really useful outside of it will be dull (depending on the campaign ofc. I'm confident this is true for the majority) and most likely the role will be filled by items or an NPC cohort. [/QUOTE]
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[3.5] Is every Magic Change Downward?
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