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<blockquote data-quote="Jalkain" data-source="post: 934731" data-attributes="member: 2473">The problem is that some people have adopted the 'any class that can't consistently inflict as much damage as the fighter must be underpowered' mindset.Wizards aren't just there to inflict damage.&nbsp; Slow is a great spell against large groups of opponents, but it doesn't inflict any damage.&nbsp; Other good non-damgaing spells include Sleep, Confusion, Eyebite, Power Word Stun...&nbsp; I could go on, but you get the idea.The point of spells like Slow isn't to damage the enemy.&nbsp; It's to stop the enemy from damaging you.What about Monster Summoning?&nbsp; Monsters don't just deal damage, they also take spells and blows that would otherwise be suffered by the PCs.&nbsp; Which means less healing is required, less temporary items get consmued etc.&nbsp; If I save the party resources, doesn't mean that I've made an important contribution?What about gathering information using divinations?&nbsp; I can think of several occasions when I have saved the party from a dungeon ambush using Detect Thoughts.&nbsp; Ambushes are often deadly, and even if they are survived, the cost in terms of party resources is often high.&nbsp; Better to spot the ambush before it happens, and then fight the battle on your terms.&nbsp; That's worth a lot more than doubly empowered fireballs in my book.And once you've confounded your opponents plans and stopped them from attacking effectively, what then?&nbsp; Well, guess what, your fighters can move in and wipe the floor with them.&nbsp; That's what fighters are for.&nbsp; Sometimes you'll have the opportunity to catch your enemies in a Cone of Cold or similar, in which case that's a bonus.This is how a wizard can be made into a viable all-day party member.&nbsp; By using the full range of spells in a way which ensures that the party as a whole stays in better shape for longer.&nbsp; Not by casting haste and then launching a 3 round fireworks display before running out of spells.&nbsp; Wizards, by the nature of the class, have always had to be careful not to run out of spells.&nbsp; That was true even in 1st Ed, and I can see no reason why people should expect it to be any different now.Anyway, this is one wizard who's looking forward to playing 3.5e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jalkain, post: 934731, member: 2473"] The problem is that some people have adopted the 'any class that can't consistently inflict as much damage as the fighter must be underpowered' mindset. Wizards aren't just there to inflict damage. Slow is a great spell against large groups of opponents, but it doesn't inflict any damage. Other good non-damgaing spells include Sleep, Confusion, Eyebite, Power Word Stun... I could go on, but you get the idea. [B]The point of spells like Slow isn't to damage the enemy. It's to stop the enemy from damaging you.[/B] What about Monster Summoning? Monsters don't just deal damage, they also take spells and blows that would otherwise be suffered by the PCs. Which means less healing is required, less temporary items get consmued etc. If I save the party resources, doesn't mean that I've made an important contribution? What about gathering information using divinations? I can think of several occasions when I have saved the party from a dungeon ambush using Detect Thoughts. Ambushes are often deadly, and even if they are survived, the cost in terms of party resources is often high. Better to spot the ambush before it happens, and then fight the battle on your terms. That's worth a lot more than doubly empowered fireballs in my book. And once you've confounded your opponents plans and stopped them from attacking effectively, what then? Well, guess what, your fighters can move in and wipe the floor with them. That's what fighters are for. Sometimes you'll have the opportunity to catch your enemies in a Cone of Cold or similar, in which case that's a bonus. This is how a wizard can be made into a viable all-day party member. By using the full range of spells in a way which ensures that the party as a whole stays in better shape for longer. Not by casting haste and then launching a 3 round fireworks display before running out of spells. Wizards, by the nature of the class, have always had to be careful not to run out of spells. That was true even in 1st Ed, and I can see no reason why people should expect it to be any different now. Anyway, this is one wizard who's looking forward to playing 3.5e. [/QUOTE]

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