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[3.5] Is every Magic Change Downward?
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 935664" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>Just to make things worse, everyone's perceptions will be biased one way or another.</p><p></p><p>An NPC spellcaster does not worry about this kind of thing. He just needs a <em>silent dimension door</em> to get away in the end.</p><p></p><p>It may also be difficult to get those four encounters per day. I'd rather use two stronger encounter, but then I run into problems with mages - unless I choose creatures deliberately designed to "nerf" the mage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not if the wizard prepared multiple <em>fly</em> or <em>improved invisibility</em> spells (and why wouldn't he) or carries a wand of some direct damage spell.</p><p></p><p>The problem isn't here, anyway, but at higher levels when wizards have much greater access to useful save-or-die spells (eg not <em>phantasmal killer</em>) and aren't running out of spells at the end of the day. (I won't even go on about <em>Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion</em>, other than to just mention it. Fortunately the mage in my campaign doesn't use that spell.)</p><p></p><p>There's a reason why most of these "ovepowered" mage scenarios deal with high levels, after all.</p><p></p><p>I think mages should be compensated for being weak at low level by being made stronger - at <em>low</em> level. I don't think it's fair to make them stronger than other classes at high level to compensate for this. That's just creating an illusion of balance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The hazards of using <em>alarm</em> <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> rather than having a ranger stand guard.</p><p></p><p>IME low-level characters <em>try</em> to stay in civilization, high level characters tend to use <em>teleport</em> or what not, and furthermore, any DM who does that on a regular basis is being plain mean. Do they have a good reason why animals must always be disturbing their camps? Hang your party's garbage in a tree and then go to sleep. There's a reason why one does not have to sleep in a fortified tent in the wilderness - probably because animals won't simply attack sleeping humans. Or keep a fire running (and face the tent the other way), which will keep most animals away.</p><p></p><p>Just to add a little fuel to the fire, a wizard needs one more hour of sleep per interruption, so if they're interrupted twice, they just start out two hours later. It isn't like they're adventuring 16 hours per day, or <em>always</em> on a tight schedule. This is one reason why mage players get so angry, since they feel the DM is always "nerfing" them by interrupting their sleep, using high-save opponents like dragons or advanced creatures, always targeting the mage first, or all the clerics they face use <em>death ward</em> and all the wizards use <em>spell turning</em> etc - DMs being unfair to them for being more powerful than the rest of the party.</p><p></p><p>I'm a bit surprised to see you saying that DMs should "nerf" wizards this way or try to kill their characters in their sleep*.</p><p></p><p>* Yeah, I'm using a bit of hyperbole. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 935664, member: 1165"] Just to make things worse, everyone's perceptions will be biased one way or another. An NPC spellcaster does not worry about this kind of thing. He just needs a [i]silent dimension door[/i] to get away in the end. It may also be difficult to get those four encounters per day. I'd rather use two stronger encounter, but then I run into problems with mages - unless I choose creatures deliberately designed to "nerf" the mage. Not if the wizard prepared multiple [i]fly[/i] or [i]improved invisibility[/i] spells (and why wouldn't he) or carries a wand of some direct damage spell. The problem isn't here, anyway, but at higher levels when wizards have much greater access to useful save-or-die spells (eg not [i]phantasmal killer[/i]) and aren't running out of spells at the end of the day. (I won't even go on about [i]Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion[/i], other than to just mention it. Fortunately the mage in my campaign doesn't use that spell.) There's a reason why most of these "ovepowered" mage scenarios deal with high levels, after all. I think mages should be compensated for being weak at low level by being made stronger - at [i]low[/i] level. I don't think it's fair to make them stronger than other classes at high level to compensate for this. That's just creating an illusion of balance. The hazards of using [i]alarm[/i] :D rather than having a ranger stand guard. IME low-level characters [i]try[/i] to stay in civilization, high level characters tend to use [i]teleport[/i] or what not, and furthermore, any DM who does that on a regular basis is being plain mean. Do they have a good reason why animals must always be disturbing their camps? Hang your party's garbage in a tree and then go to sleep. There's a reason why one does not have to sleep in a fortified tent in the wilderness - probably because animals won't simply attack sleeping humans. Or keep a fire running (and face the tent the other way), which will keep most animals away. Just to add a little fuel to the fire, a wizard needs one more hour of sleep per interruption, so if they're interrupted twice, they just start out two hours later. It isn't like they're adventuring 16 hours per day, or [i]always[/i] on a tight schedule. This is one reason why mage players get so angry, since they feel the DM is always "nerfing" them by interrupting their sleep, using high-save opponents like dragons or advanced creatures, always targeting the mage first, or all the clerics they face use [i]death ward[/i] and all the wizards use [i]spell turning[/i] etc - DMs being unfair to them for being more powerful than the rest of the party. I'm a bit surprised to see you saying that DMs should "nerf" wizards this way or try to kill their characters in their sleep*. * Yeah, I'm using a bit of hyperbole. :D [/QUOTE]
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