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<blockquote data-quote="athos" data-source="post: 5380507" data-attributes="member: 32605">Are you the DM or the player?&nbsp; I think players' tend to prefer the bonuses they get when wild shaping/polymorphing etc. to their physical attributes.&nbsp; A lot of players tend to make their attributes low on the physical stats when they plan on being in another shape for much of the game.&nbsp;As a DM, this is an area of abuse that I hate, especially when a real min/maxer gets ahold of it (just kill yourself if you allow lords of madness for druids).&nbsp; I have tried a couple of things, one is that I required the player to keep his own constitution score, and let them get only the dex and str of the new form.&nbsp; My reasoning for this is that if he is a sickly druid, he is a sickly bear or whatever.&nbsp; I get complaints that this nerfs druids too much, but for me as a DM, I am ok with that, they should be tending their groves and not out killing things.&nbsp;&nbsp; More of a compromise that one of my players came up with is if the PC has an 8 con for instance, subtract 2 from the con of the shape, to me this is still not a good solution.&nbsp; These spells are really open to abuse, my personal preference is to nerf them, but if the encounters are using them against the players as much as the players are using them against the monsters, then hey, maybe they will work for you.&nbsp; To me though, that kind of escalation ruins a game.&nbsp;Best of luck,&nbsp;Athos</blockquote>

[QUOTE="athos, post: 5380507, member: 32605"] Are you the DM or the player? I think players' tend to prefer the bonuses they get when wild shaping/polymorphing etc. to their physical attributes. A lot of players tend to make their attributes low on the physical stats when they plan on being in another shape for much of the game. As a DM, this is an area of abuse that I hate, especially when a real min/maxer gets ahold of it (just kill yourself if you allow lords of madness for druids). I have tried a couple of things, one is that I required the player to keep his own constitution score, and let them get only the dex and str of the new form. My reasoning for this is that if he is a sickly druid, he is a sickly bear or whatever. I get complaints that this nerfs druids too much, but for me as a DM, I am ok with that, they should be tending their groves and not out killing things. More of a compromise that one of my players came up with is if the PC has an 8 con for instance, subtract 2 from the con of the shape, to me this is still not a good solution. These spells are really open to abuse, my personal preference is to nerf them, but if the encounters are using them against the players as much as the players are using them against the monsters, then hey, maybe they will work for you. To me though, that kind of escalation ruins a game. Best of luck, Athos [/QUOTE]

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