3.5 Little Changes, big effects

[Garmorn]

Has any one else noticed very many little changes that are going to make a big difference in how characters act.

Take the change to familiars for example. They no longer give their master the Altertness Feat. Now they are assumed to take 10 on spot and Listen, therefor granting their masters a +2 to these skills. At first glance a small insignificant change, but it means that now at 1st level a wizard or sorcerer can have a effective 6 + wis bonus for spot and or listen. Better then any other non sealth type character. Almost as good as a rogues +8 max + wis.
For less chance of a low level wizard or sorcerer to being flat footed at lower levels.

 

[Zweischneid]

I wouldn´t classify your example as a "big effects".

Yes, there are some significant changes in 3.5.. enough (IMO) that it woud likely be called a 4th Edition were it not for some legal issues.

But the way characters act or not act is still an issue of "in game" an therefore unrelated to any mathematics or mechanics that govern the world technically.

dont get em mixed up...

 

[Duke Frinn]

That change is huge. This isn't even 4th edition... It's 5.5 at least!

And seriously, that changes between 2e and 3e were much greater than 3e to 3.5e, and so do not warrant a new edition.

 

[Garmorn]

I wouldn´t classify your example as a "big effects".

Yes, there are some significant changes in 3.5.. enough (IMO) that it woud likely be called a 4th Edition were it not for some legal issues.

But the way characters act or not act is still an issue of "in game" an therefore unrelated to any mathematics or mechanics that govern the world technically.

dont get em mixed up...

As way characters act you are correct, but this type of change will effect how alot of character are build and the mechanical odds of their survival. This particular change will give low level wiz and sor just one more choice that they have to make.

While I agree that it is not a huge change like the rules for animal campanions or the changes to the ranger class, it is one more example how many of the so called minor changes that have not been mentioned will effet the game.

 

[ergeheilalt]

uhh, you confound me with this post...

Alertness [General]
You have finely tuned senses.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Listen checks and Spot checks.

Your point is...

Erge

 

[infax]

I would think his point is that now a Wiz or Sor character can also take the Alertness feat and effectively have the benefit of both.

 

[ergeheilalt]

It makes sense that having someone you are linked with telepathically gives you a bonus to notice what is going on around you. However, if you are also "alert" you have the ability to notice things on your own. So if you take alertness and have a familiar; it still works logically.

You have heightened senses and your familiar increases adds to that. Not a bad change IMO, haven't actually seen it used very often in 3.0 E

Erge

 

[bret]

Let's see if I can't explain this a little better.

In 3.0, Wizards got a 'virtual feat' of Alertness if their familiar was close. They didn't word it that way, but mechanically it is a feat with a restriction.

In 3.5, the bonus comes from the Familiar doing an Aid Another on sense rolls. This has several effects:

• The wizard can now take the Alertness feat and gain a benefit.
• The familiar now has to be someplace where it can see and hear in order to grant the bonus. Mr. Toad in a Pocket &reg will not be able to grant this bonus.

An elf with an owl and the Alertness feat now has a total of +6 to Spot and Listen. In 3.0, the Alertness feat would have been a waste, because it would not have stacked with Alertness from the familiar.


There is now a rules reason to not carry around the familiar in a cage.

Edit: Formetting

 

[storyguide3]

Yes, there are some significant changes in 3.5.. enough (IMO) that it woud likely be called a 4th Edition were it not for some legal issues.
[/B]

Just curious. What legal issues are you referring to?

 

[Garmorn]

Let's see if I can't explain this a little better.

In 3.0, Wizards got a 'virtual feat' of Alertness if their familiar was close. They didn't word it that way, but mechanically it is a feat with a restriction.

In 3.5, the bonus comes from the Familiar doing an Aid Another on sense rolls. This has several effects:

• The wizard can now take the Alertness feat and gain a benefit.
• The familiar now has to be someplace where it can see and hear in order to grant the bonus. Mr. Toad in a Pocket &reg will not be able to grant this bonus.

An elf with an owl and the Alertness feat now has a total of +6 to Spot and Listen. In 3.0, the Alertness feat would have been a waste, because it would not have stacked with Alertness from the familiar.


There is now a rules reason to not carry around the familiar in a cage.

Edit: Formetting

Only if I could state my case as clearly as that



I am also wanting to know if any body has notice similar small changes with effects larger then a first look would indicate.