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<blockquote data-quote="Sekhmet" data-source="post: 5867187" data-attributes="member: 97602">[MENTION=6690697]TKDB[/MENTION] The only time you take a -4 penalty (like you typically would with a non-proficiency) is when trying to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, as outlined in the specific rules for making an Unarmed Strike. Using nonlethal damage, there is no penalty (except the AoO). Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to make lethal attacks with no penalty. &nbsp;There is no Proficiency: Unarmed, because the feat Improved Unarmed Strike takes it's place. Monks gain Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1. &nbsp;Weapon Prof: Simple would do nothing for Unarmed, it has a special clause that states you cannot make lethal Unarmed Strikes without taking a -4, whereas the Monk's class feature &quot;Unarmed&quot; specifically overrules it. &nbsp;&nbsp;Actually reading the rules allows you to RAW most situations without having to use RAI. &nbsp;Finally, I'm going through the Monster Manual right now, and there does not appear to be any beast with Weapon Proficiency: Natural Attacks. Lots of beasts with Track, Scent, Alertness, and Weapon Finesse (which applies to Natural Attacks), but no proficiency. Likewise, there is no entry for &quot;Weapon Proficiency&quot; at all in the Monster Manual.&nbsp;Yes, the &quot;traits&quot; section of most creature types explicitly states most creatures are proficient with their natural weapons (as it also states Humanoids are usually proficient with all Simple weapons), but the overwhelming text available says that such a proficiency does not exist.&nbsp; Direct contradiction requires you to use the primary sources, Errata&gt;DMG&gt;PHB&gt;MM.&nbsp;Furthermore, the Weapon Focus/Spec tree states &quot;Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray...&quot; Including unarmed strikes with grapples and rays, both of which also do not have proficiencies, further defines unarmed strikes as something everyone can do.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sekhmet, post: 5867187, member: 97602"] [MENTION=6690697]TKDB[/MENTION] The only time you take a -4 penalty (like you typically would with a non-proficiency) is when trying to deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike, as outlined in the specific rules for making an Unarmed Strike. Using nonlethal damage, there is no penalty (except the AoO). Improved Unarmed Strike allows you to make lethal attacks with no penalty. There is no Proficiency: Unarmed, because the feat Improved Unarmed Strike takes it's place. Monks gain Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1. Weapon Prof: Simple would do nothing for Unarmed, it has a special clause that states you cannot make lethal Unarmed Strikes without taking a -4, whereas the Monk's class feature "Unarmed" specifically overrules it. Actually reading the rules allows you to RAW most situations without having to use RAI. Finally, I'm going through the Monster Manual right now, and there does not appear to be any beast with Weapon Proficiency: Natural Attacks. Lots of beasts with Track, Scent, Alertness, and Weapon Finesse (which applies to Natural Attacks), but no proficiency. Likewise, there is no entry for "Weapon Proficiency" at all in the Monster Manual. Yes, the "traits" section of most creature types explicitly states most creatures are proficient with their natural weapons (as it also states Humanoids are usually proficient with all Simple weapons), but the overwhelming text available says that such a proficiency does not exist. Direct contradiction requires you to use the primary sources, Errata>DMG>PHB>MM. Furthermore, the Weapon Focus/Spec tree states "Choose one type of weapon. You can [b]also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray...[/b]" Including unarmed strikes with grapples and rays, both of which also do not have proficiencies, further defines unarmed strikes as something everyone can do. [/QUOTE]

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