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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
3.5 modified Con, HP, and healing sugres?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5182002" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>One of the biggest problems I see posters in the house rules forums have is they don't start with their goals. They start with mechanics without alot of consideration for whether the mechanics will actually help them attain their goals.</p><p></p><p>The statement of your goals was as follows:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To begin with, what about your suggested mechanics makes fighters more able to renew themselves than caster types? As best as I can tell, your ability to recover hitpoints is solely dependent on your constitution. Casters can have just as good or often better constition than non-casters (wizards for example often can get by with just Intelligence and Constitution). So, this doesn't meet your goal. Meeting that goal most directly means that the number of healing surges should not depend on constitution, but entirely on class (or BAB). </p><p></p><p>Likewise, your mechanics are such that you've basically imposed a 'feat tax' on all players. Being able to use your healing surge at will as a swift action is so good, that pretty much every character will have to spend 1-4 feats on the healing surge feat tree because NOTHING else he could spend a feat on will be as good or as important. </p><p></p><p>Also you've done nothing to make magical healing less important. If anything, you've made magical healing MORE important, because since everyone is closer to death at all times, its more important than ever to be able to recieve magical healing during combat. While we are on the subject, I'm observing that 4e has a serious problem with balance based on assumptions of party composition. I've read alot of 4e threads on 'grind' and balance, and some groups say that 4e plays fast and is highly lethal and others say that its grindy, boring and that there party is never in danger of death. While there are some encounter design issues at play, one of the real determining factors seems to be the number of leaders in the party. With zero leaders in the party and lots of strikers you get fast lethal combat. With two leaders in the party, you get grinds where the ready availability of healing as free actions absolutely overwhelms the ability of monsters to inflict damage. I see your rules going down that path only more so, because 4e at least has some balancing features. If you try to integrate this into 3e, you are going to get a situation where to avoid TPKs, you'll have to alter CR in such a way that if magical healing is available the encounter will represent little threat.</p><p></p><p>I don't really think you are accomplishing any of your goals, nor do I necessarily understand where your goals are coming from. What are you seeing in your game play that makes you think you could improve the game by providing more short rests, giving characters and monsters half as many hitpoints (but the same ability to inflict damage!), and so forth?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5182002, member: 4937"] One of the biggest problems I see posters in the house rules forums have is they don't start with their goals. They start with mechanics without alot of consideration for whether the mechanics will actually help them attain their goals. The statement of your goals was as follows: To begin with, what about your suggested mechanics makes fighters more able to renew themselves than caster types? As best as I can tell, your ability to recover hitpoints is solely dependent on your constitution. Casters can have just as good or often better constition than non-casters (wizards for example often can get by with just Intelligence and Constitution). So, this doesn't meet your goal. Meeting that goal most directly means that the number of healing surges should not depend on constitution, but entirely on class (or BAB). Likewise, your mechanics are such that you've basically imposed a 'feat tax' on all players. Being able to use your healing surge at will as a swift action is so good, that pretty much every character will have to spend 1-4 feats on the healing surge feat tree because NOTHING else he could spend a feat on will be as good or as important. Also you've done nothing to make magical healing less important. If anything, you've made magical healing MORE important, because since everyone is closer to death at all times, its more important than ever to be able to recieve magical healing during combat. While we are on the subject, I'm observing that 4e has a serious problem with balance based on assumptions of party composition. I've read alot of 4e threads on 'grind' and balance, and some groups say that 4e plays fast and is highly lethal and others say that its grindy, boring and that there party is never in danger of death. While there are some encounter design issues at play, one of the real determining factors seems to be the number of leaders in the party. With zero leaders in the party and lots of strikers you get fast lethal combat. With two leaders in the party, you get grinds where the ready availability of healing as free actions absolutely overwhelms the ability of monsters to inflict damage. I see your rules going down that path only more so, because 4e at least has some balancing features. If you try to integrate this into 3e, you are going to get a situation where to avoid TPKs, you'll have to alter CR in such a way that if magical healing is available the encounter will represent little threat. I don't really think you are accomplishing any of your goals, nor do I necessarily understand where your goals are coming from. What are you seeing in your game play that makes you think you could improve the game by providing more short rests, giving characters and monsters half as many hitpoints (but the same ability to inflict damage!), and so forth? [/QUOTE]
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