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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
[3.5] No Take 10/20 specifics?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bagpuss" data-source="post: 1056949" data-attributes="member: 3987"><p>First off its not a guessing game. With Take 10 you know that if you have a decent number of ranks you'll do okay. With a roll you don't know if you'll do okay no matter what ranks you have.</p><p></p><p>For example I have an A-Level in maths, I know that most straight forward maths problems I can do, I know that given a calculator, pencil and paper I can do a number of more complex maths stuff like algebra, etc. Lets say I'm reasonably intelligent 14, +2 and have maxed Knowledge(Maths) out my 2 Expert levels so have 5 ranks.</p><p></p><p>My 6 year old niece who is pretty bright Int 14 a +2 mod, but only the very basics in maths 1 rank.</p><p></p><p>Algebra is pretty straight forward but requires some understanding of maths, its not something you could do without some prior knowledge or amazing natural talent. So as a DM you set the DC at 15.</p><p></p><p>Me, I take 10, +5 ranks +2 Int modifier and get 17 I can do the algebra.</p><p></p><p>My niece takes 10 and +1 rank +2 int and gets 13 the problem is beyond her.</p><p></p><p>Your system my niece could roll a 20 and start doing advanced trig, while I could roll a 1 and have trouble with 4 = x + 3 what is the value of x?</p><p></p><p>Also do you really want a random result? Take 10 isn't random, it means if the DM wants the players to have the information or succeed then he just needs to set the task within the reach of one player. That way the player that has spent the ranks on Knowledge (Goblins) gets the change to shine when they discover a dead goblin with strange tattoos, that point he is a member of a particular tribe of goblins know for making excellent ice creams.</p><p></p><p>With your system that player could flunk his roll, look like an fool, since he has previously claimed to be an expert on goblins, and the players massacre the goblins without ever learning about the cookies and cream treasure hoard hidden in the ice wall at the back of their cave. Or maybe the guy with no ranks in Knowledge (goblins) rolls well and discovers the information, he then knows more about goblins than the character that was designed as a goblin expert.</p><p></p><p>So because of an unfortunate roll of the dice. </p><p></p><p>1) Character fails to live up to the player's concept, goblin expert looks like he was lying about his knowledge of goblins. Disappointed player.</p><p>2) Clever DM plot dice and adventure flavour is lost even after you spent hours working on it. Disappointed DM.</p><p></p><p>No one is happy.</p><p></p><p>Or with Take 10</p><p></p><p>1) Character lives up to player's concept, and player feels reward for investing skill points in Knowledge (goblins), player happy.</p><p>2) DM gets to introduce side quest he spent weeks on the hunt for fresh rasberries so the goblins can make ripple ice creams. DM happy.</p><p></p><p>I know which I prefer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bagpuss, post: 1056949, member: 3987"] First off its not a guessing game. With Take 10 you know that if you have a decent number of ranks you'll do okay. With a roll you don't know if you'll do okay no matter what ranks you have. For example I have an A-Level in maths, I know that most straight forward maths problems I can do, I know that given a calculator, pencil and paper I can do a number of more complex maths stuff like algebra, etc. Lets say I'm reasonably intelligent 14, +2 and have maxed Knowledge(Maths) out my 2 Expert levels so have 5 ranks. My 6 year old niece who is pretty bright Int 14 a +2 mod, but only the very basics in maths 1 rank. Algebra is pretty straight forward but requires some understanding of maths, its not something you could do without some prior knowledge or amazing natural talent. So as a DM you set the DC at 15. Me, I take 10, +5 ranks +2 Int modifier and get 17 I can do the algebra. My niece takes 10 and +1 rank +2 int and gets 13 the problem is beyond her. Your system my niece could roll a 20 and start doing advanced trig, while I could roll a 1 and have trouble with 4 = x + 3 what is the value of x? Also do you really want a random result? Take 10 isn't random, it means if the DM wants the players to have the information or succeed then he just needs to set the task within the reach of one player. That way the player that has spent the ranks on Knowledge (Goblins) gets the change to shine when they discover a dead goblin with strange tattoos, that point he is a member of a particular tribe of goblins know for making excellent ice creams. With your system that player could flunk his roll, look like an fool, since he has previously claimed to be an expert on goblins, and the players massacre the goblins without ever learning about the cookies and cream treasure hoard hidden in the ice wall at the back of their cave. Or maybe the guy with no ranks in Knowledge (goblins) rolls well and discovers the information, he then knows more about goblins than the character that was designed as a goblin expert. So because of an unfortunate roll of the dice. 1) Character fails to live up to the player's concept, goblin expert looks like he was lying about his knowledge of goblins. Disappointed player. 2) Clever DM plot dice and adventure flavour is lost even after you spent hours working on it. Disappointed DM. No one is happy. Or with Take 10 1) Character lives up to player's concept, and player feels reward for investing skill points in Knowledge (goblins), player happy. 2) DM gets to introduce side quest he spent weeks on the hunt for fresh rasberries so the goblins can make ripple ice creams. DM happy. I know which I prefer. [/QUOTE]
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