[3.5] Perform -- Does it annoy you as well?

[Charwoman Gene]

Okay... this is a change that probably had the best of intentions...

Perform used to be one skill, with one "type" of performing per rank. It is now multiple skills, with each "type" of musical instrument given its own skill. Singing is separate from stringed instruments.

One Perform skill must be maxed out in order to use a bard's songs to the greatest level. A bard who want's to know both oratory and singing must now spend twice the skill points.

I do understand the the bard has more skill points in 3.5, but this hamstrings people who like to give their bard a little style, and rewards those who play their bards like with no flair.

A "By-The-Stats" Bard has no reason to pick up multiple perform skills so, he is balanced with only one perform skill.

Argh.

 

[Saeviomagy]

My suggestion:

Allow a bard to use the average of the appropriate skill and his best perform skill.

So - a bard with "perform (oratory): 23" and "perform (singing): 5" would be able to orate with a bonus of 23, sing with a bonus of 14 and dance with a bonus of 11 (or maybe not at all - really up to you).

On the one hand, the new rule makes sense. On the other hand, it punishes a roleplaying decision. I'm torn as to whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I can't stand it. They've structured it in such a way that it seems like you're getting something more. For instance, a single rank in Perform (Stringed Instruments) lets you play eight or nine different stringed instruments...all for one skill point!

But in reality, it's limiting, because some players (read: me) want their bards to be skilled in a variety of unconnected instruments and styles. For instance, to be good at singing, acting, juggling, and the lute would take 4 skill points per level, for absolutely zero mechanical benefit.

It's the harshest role-playing punishment I know of in the new revision.

 

[reapersaurus]

I think it's at least an attempt to rectify a known problem in 3E (the unrealisticness of knowing so many unrelated performance types at the same level), but it is a very flawed attempt.

It fixes the 3E problem, while introducing another, worse one of skill point drain if you want a varied Bard.

It also introduces a worse problem that 3E Perform: the categorization of Performance types. They are very limiting, and incomplete in scope.

 

[Etan Moonstar]

The new rule makes much more sense to me. Although 15 years of experience and lessons have made me a pretty decent trombone player, I'm not anywhere near as good at woodwind instruments (having only a couple months training on each one), even worse at piano, and believe me when I say you don't really want to see me dance. I can see setting up some synergy bonuses provided within broader groups of categories (brass--trombone does give me an edge playing other brass instruments--, woodwinds, percussion, strings, singing, dance, and poetry), but as a trained musician I found it ridiculous that a bard could perform in an ever-increasing number of areas equally well. And it's not like the new bard didn't get more skill points to put into other forms of perform, after all.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Gotta agree with Etan. Whatever else you can say about the new Perform, it's much more realistic this way. Studying piano for 20 years is not going to do much to make you a better orater, and not a whole lot more to make you a better guitarist. It's the same reason being a blacksmith doesn't automatically make you an armor-smith, despite the very close relations between the two.

I'd recommend lots of synergy bonuses, since an understanding of the basic principles can carry over from instrument to instrument, but the basic skills are ultimately different beasts.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think it's at least an attempt to rectify a known problem in 3E (the unrealisticness of knowing so many unrelated performance types at the same level), but it is a very flawed attempt.

Yes, it's not like they tried to fix the same problem concerning weapon proficiencies.

"So from your short sword-fighting class you've picked up the finer intricacies of flail fighting?"

"Yes, natch."

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The new rule makes much more sense to me. Although 15 years of experience and lessons have made me a pretty decent trombone player, I'm not anywhere near as good at woodwind instruments (having only a couple months training on each one), even worse at piano, and believe me when I say you don't really want to see me dance. I can see setting up some synergy bonuses provided within broader groups of categories (brass--trombone does give me an edge playing other brass instruments--, woodwinds, percussion, strings, singing, dance, and poetry), but as a trained musician I found it ridiculous that a bard could perform in an ever-increasing number of areas equally well. And it's not like the new bard didn't get more skill points to put into other forms of perform, after all.

See, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this line of thought, if WotC wasn't taking the stance that the 3.5 gets more skill points. If the new bard is expected to put his new skill points into perform, (which, btw, gain him absolutely nothing other than flavor,) then he is not getting any more skill points than before.

Basically, you have a choice:

Choose Perform (Sing) and be good at only singing, but have extra skill points as advertised.

Or choose to be good at a few different things, and have the same, or less skill points than the 3.0 bard.

Bah! To the Ninth Layer of Hell with your realism, let me play a bard character that I enjoy!

 

[Artimoff]

Artimoff's perform vesion 3.5.1: Bards use the 3.0 version of perform, all other classes use the 3.5 version. That was easy.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

What bugs me is the traditional basic "performance" you see out of most performer's is a combination of two Perform "skills". Singing while playing a string instrument. Singing and dancing.

Argh.

I'm going with a house rule, as it won't damage any balance.

We wouldn't be having this discussion if the ranks in all Perform "skills" would stack for Bardic Songs.

It isn't like Knowledges, Crafts, and Professions. There is no non-rp difference between Perform: Winds and Perform: Sing.