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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
3.5 power attack: the designers' rationale
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<blockquote data-quote="Mike Sullivan" data-source="post: 960800" data-attributes="member: 9824"><p>I'll correctly assume that you <em>are</em>, and you're failing because you don't know what you're talking about.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you're wrong.</p><p></p><p>Naturally, a relatively small sample size of rolls will not perfectly land the statistical average -- in fact, a very large sample size will still not perfectly land the statistical average. That does not mean that the statistical average is "meaningless."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Plane Sailing, sorry to burst your bubble, but I've been looking at single-attack actions from the beginning. But heck, I'll do it again, just for you.</p><p></p><p>Your tenth level group:</p><p></p><p>Fighter level 10, greatsword-wielding, 3.5 style feats</p><p></p><p>Character has 20 Strength, WF, GWF, WS, Improved Critical. +3 Greatsword with no special attributes.</p><p></p><p>Damage: 2d6+7+3+2 = 2d6+12, average to 19 before criticals.</p><p></p><p>One-attack-attack-bonus: +10 (BAB) + 5 (Str) + 1 (WF) + 1 (GWF) +3 (Magic) = +20</p><p></p><p>Elder Arrowhawk (CR 8) AC: 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Atack: 0</p><p></p><p>Behir (CR 8) AC: 16, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 6 points, for an increase in average damage of 31.6%.</p><p></p><p>Avoral (CR 9) AC: 21, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.3%.</p><p></p><p>Bebilith (CR 9) AC: 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0</p><p></p><p>Retriever (CR 10) AC: 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0</p><p></p><p>Cornugon (CR 10) AC: 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0</p><p></p><p>Destracharn (CR 8) AC 16, as Behir above (31.6% advantage).</p><p></p><p>Devourer (CR 10) AC 18, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 4 points, for an increase in average damage of 21%.</p><p></p><p>Dragon Turtle (CR 10) AC 20, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.3%</p><p></p><p>Adult Black Dragon (CR 10) AC 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0.</p><p></p><p>Greater Air Elemental (CR 9) AC 26, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0.</p><p></p><p>Greater Earth Elemental (CR 9) AC 20, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack 1 point, fo r an increase in average damage of 5.3%</p><p></p><p>Greater Fire Elemental (CR 9) AC 24, optimal amount of 3.0 Power ATtack: 0.</p><p></p><p>Greater Water Elemental (CR 9) AC 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0.</p><p></p><p>Mymarch Fomorian (CR 10) AC 27, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0</p><p></p><p>Efreeti (CR 8) AC 18, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack 4 points, for an increase in average damage of 21%.</p><p></p><p>Frost Giant & Fire Giant (CR 9 & 10) AC 21, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.31%.</p><p></p><p>...</p><p></p><p>Do I really need to go through every damn monster in the SRD this way?</p><p></p><p>Yes, there are occaisional monsters for which it's very useful -- a Colossul Animated Object has an AC of 11, and is in the appropriate CR range. But they're the exception and not the rule. The basic state of things is that at mid-shading-to-high levels like you seem to be concerned with, 3.0 Power Attack is flatly useless when taking a full round attack, and either useless or mildly useful when taking a partial attack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mike Sullivan, post: 960800, member: 9824"] I'll correctly assume that you [i]are[/i], and you're failing because you don't know what you're talking about. No, you're wrong. Naturally, a relatively small sample size of rolls will not perfectly land the statistical average -- in fact, a very large sample size will still not perfectly land the statistical average. That does not mean that the statistical average is "meaningless." Plane Sailing, sorry to burst your bubble, but I've been looking at single-attack actions from the beginning. But heck, I'll do it again, just for you. Your tenth level group: Fighter level 10, greatsword-wielding, 3.5 style feats Character has 20 Strength, WF, GWF, WS, Improved Critical. +3 Greatsword with no special attributes. Damage: 2d6+7+3+2 = 2d6+12, average to 19 before criticals. One-attack-attack-bonus: +10 (BAB) + 5 (Str) + 1 (WF) + 1 (GWF) +3 (Magic) = +20 Elder Arrowhawk (CR 8) AC: 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Atack: 0 Behir (CR 8) AC: 16, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 6 points, for an increase in average damage of 31.6%. Avoral (CR 9) AC: 21, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.3%. Bebilith (CR 9) AC: 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0 Retriever (CR 10) AC: 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0 Cornugon (CR 10) AC: 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0 Destracharn (CR 8) AC 16, as Behir above (31.6% advantage). Devourer (CR 10) AC 18, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 4 points, for an increase in average damage of 21%. Dragon Turtle (CR 10) AC 20, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.3% Adult Black Dragon (CR 10) AC 25, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0. Greater Air Elemental (CR 9) AC 26, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0. Greater Earth Elemental (CR 9) AC 20, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack 1 point, fo r an increase in average damage of 5.3% Greater Fire Elemental (CR 9) AC 24, optimal amount of 3.0 Power ATtack: 0. Greater Water Elemental (CR 9) AC 22, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0. Mymarch Fomorian (CR 10) AC 27, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 0 Efreeti (CR 8) AC 18, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack 4 points, for an increase in average damage of 21%. Frost Giant & Fire Giant (CR 9 & 10) AC 21, optimal amount of 3.0 Power Attack: 1 point, for an increase in average damage of 5.31%. ... Do I really need to go through every damn monster in the SRD this way? Yes, there are occaisional monsters for which it's very useful -- a Colossul Animated Object has an AC of 11, and is in the appropriate CR range. But they're the exception and not the rule. The basic state of things is that at mid-shading-to-high levels like you seem to be concerned with, 3.0 Power Attack is flatly useless when taking a full round attack, and either useless or mildly useful when taking a partial attack. [/QUOTE]
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