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<blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5441385" data-attributes="member: 98032">I don't know...ask a bard to scribe a scroll of Cure Light and explain to the Wizard or the Cleric which one can use it and why...<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious&nbsp; &nbsp; :]" data-shortname=":]" /> Just being facetuous btw.&nbsp;&nbsp;But are you saying this as opposed to Psionics? Divine/Arcane is just a descriptor applied to the same system. Divine and Arcane magic, regardless the different &quot;source&quot; follow the memorization mechanic and/or daily spell allotments. They also have the same schools and other shared attributes. &nbsp;Psionics uses essentially a spell point system with &quot;powers&quot; which despite in some cases being literal copies of the &quot;arcane&quot; or &quot;divine&quot; spells are from a source which is alien to the core &quot;magic&quot;. Ok, that sounds nifty, but really, do we need to introduce more rulesets for a bunch of renamed spells? And can we even expect this system to be balanced if run in combination with the other completely different (and arguably equally problematic) system.&nbsp;Just make a sorcerer, take Eschew Components, and tell your DM you are &quot;doing it all with your brain!&quot; Tada - Psionicist and one less book to buy... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp;&nbsp;Luckily I did not trot out mechanical issues as the sole reason and professed my own ignorance to the true balance of things. I imagine though that magic and psionics both generate house rules...it's a necesary feature of any DnD game I've ever played. I think trying to prove which one has forced more houserules might be a bit silly, but I'm sure magic wins hands down if only due to the much larger volume of material available.&nbsp;Again though, I stil think the heart of the &quot;its not balanced&quot; debate is that Psionics doesn't mesh well with the established &quot;magic&quot; rule set nor does it even thematically fit in. There is no glass house, just an opinion. I'm under no illusion that the magic system is perfect and I even admitted previously that in some ways psionics handles things better. &nbsp;&nbsp;I won't argue higher level magic isn't busted or even begin to say which is broken more - that would be silly. But if low-level Psionics can &quot;nova&quot; and own an encounter whereas low-level mages can &quot;sputter&quot; and pray the Druid cleans things up, then I'd say players will at least perceive there is a general balance issue when you try to mix the two different Magic / Power systems. &nbsp;&nbsp;Sure, XPH came out after the PHB. Of course the shiny new PHB v .5 came out several years later (along with yet another book to update psionics as well). That still doesn't mean I don't feel time and money would have been better spent offering a solid, better balanced alternative to the vancian magic system instead of devising an entirely new system for what seems to me to be a different genre of game.&nbsp;&nbsp;This is pretty much what the argument boils down to and I totally agree. It's which one is &quot;Cooler&quot;. I for one, don't think the spoon-bending is &quot;cooler&quot;. I mean you can have a patron deity with infinite power granting your spells or you can have finite power fueled by an infinite ego regarding your limited power... I see the attraction, but I'll take the poo flingers still.&nbsp;BTW - I still like Mind Flayers...they eat brains and that's pretty cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CuRoi, post: 5441385, member: 98032"] I don't know...ask a bard to scribe a scroll of Cure Light and explain to the Wizard or the Cleric which one can use it and why...:] Just being facetuous btw. But are you saying this as opposed to Psionics? Divine/Arcane is just a descriptor applied to the same system. Divine and Arcane magic, regardless the different "source" follow the memorization mechanic and/or daily spell allotments. They also have the same schools and other shared attributes. Psionics uses essentially a spell point system with "powers" which despite in some cases being literal copies of the "arcane" or "divine" spells are from a source which is alien to the core "magic". Ok, that sounds nifty, but really, do we need to introduce more rulesets for a bunch of renamed spells? And can we even expect this system to be balanced if run in combination with the other completely different (and arguably equally problematic) system. Just make a sorcerer, take Eschew Components, and tell your DM you are "doing it all with your brain!" Tada - Psionicist and one less book to buy... :D Luckily I did not trot out mechanical issues as the sole reason and professed my own ignorance to the true balance of things. I imagine though that magic and psionics both generate house rules...it's a necesary feature of any DnD game I've ever played. I think trying to prove which one has forced more houserules might be a bit silly, but I'm sure magic wins hands down if only due to the much larger volume of material available. Again though, I stil think the heart of the "its not balanced" debate is that Psionics doesn't mesh well with the established "magic" rule set nor does it even thematically fit in. There is no glass house, just an opinion. I'm under no illusion that the magic system is perfect and I even admitted previously that in some ways psionics handles things better. I won't argue higher level magic isn't busted or even begin to say which is broken more - that would be silly. But if low-level Psionics can "nova" and own an encounter whereas low-level mages can "sputter" and pray the Druid cleans things up, then I'd say players will at least perceive there is a general balance issue when you try to mix the two different Magic / Power systems. Sure, XPH came out after the PHB. Of course the shiny new PHB v .5 came out several years later (along with yet another book to update psionics as well). That still doesn't mean I don't feel time and money would have been better spent offering a solid, better balanced alternative to the vancian magic system instead of devising an entirely new system for what seems to me to be a different genre of game. This is pretty much what the argument boils down to and I totally agree. It's which one is "Cooler". I for one, don't think the spoon-bending is "cooler". I mean you can have a patron deity with infinite power granting your spells or you can have finite power fueled by an infinite ego regarding your limited power... I see the attraction, but I'll take the poo flingers still. BTW - I still like Mind Flayers...they eat brains and that's pretty cool. [/QUOTE]

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