D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Ring of Evasion

[Hypersmurf]

I notice that, by the wording of the Evasion ability in the SRD, a Ftr10 in full plate with a Ring of Evasion can arguably still use the ability, while a Ftr9/Rog1 in full plate with a Ring of Evasion still cannot...

Also, I see that it hasn't been made any clearer as to whether one can make a Reflex Save while helpless. Evasion still contains the line "As with a Reflex Save for any creature" on its room-to-move provision.

-Hyp.

 

[drnuncheon]

I notice that, by the wording of the Evasion ability in the SRD, a Ftr10 in full plate with a Ring of Evasion can arguably still use the ability, while a Ftr9/Rog1 in full plate with a Ring of Evasion still cannot...

Not true. The ring of evasion does not grant you evasion, it grants you "the ability to avoid damage as if [you] had evasion", and then goes on to define that: 'Whenever [the wearer] makes a Reflex saving through to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage."

So, a rogue with heavy armor could not use their class-based evasion, but could use the evasion-like ability granted by the ring. If the ring granted evasion, you'd be right.

J
...waiting for someone to argue that the ring of evasion only works for women...
...or turns its wearers into women...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except it doesn't say "in similar fashion to Evasion", or something like that - it says "as if they had Evasion".

It's not a different power that happens to do something like Evasion does - it's a different power that does exactly what Evasion does, so the rules for Evasion have to be consulted.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So what's the argument for the Fighter10 getting away with it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Evasion quality specifies that Rogues and Monks cannot use Evasion in medium or heavy armor.

The Ftr10 with the ring can avoid damage as if he had evasion.

The Ftr9/Rog1 with the ring can avoid damage as if he had evasion - which means that, since he's a Rogue, he cannot use the ability in medium or heavy armor.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Being on the guest list for a concert lets you into the concert the same "as if" you had bought a ticket. You never actually bought the ticket, but for all intents and purposes you have the same ability to get into the concert as a ticket purchaser.

The wording for the ring works identically to that. You never bought the Evasion class ability by taking the prerequisite number of levels in an appropriate class, but for all intents and purposes, wearing the ring gets you the same benefit.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Being on the guest list for a concert lets you into the concert the same "as if" you had bought a ticket. You never actually bought the ticket, but for all intents and purposes you have the same ability to get into the concert as a ticket purchaser.

The wording for the ring works identically to that. You never bought the Evasion class ability by taking the prerequisite number of levels in an appropriate class, but for all intents and purposes, wearing the ring gets you the same benefit.

Didn't finish what I started. Because the ring treats you "as if" you had the class ability, all rules for the class ability still apply. Therefore the wearer of the ring cannot be wearing armor heavier than light to benefit from the ring.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Didn't finish what I started. Because the ring treats you "as if" you had the class ability, all rules for the class ability still apply. Therefore the wearer of the ring cannot be wearing armor heavier than light to benefit from the ring.

Except it doesn't specify that you gain Evasion "as the class feature of a Rogue or Monk".

Evasion is a Special Ability. Rogues and Monks gain access to Evasion as a class feature. Rogues and Monks have restrictions on when they can use it.

A Fighter wearing the Ring is treated as if he had Evasion. Since he is neither a Rogue nor a Monk, the restrictions do not apply.

A Rogue who is wearing the ring, or a Rogue who is of high enough level to have the class feature, gains access to Evasion. The armor restriction is not a function of the class feature - it is, in fact, a function of the Evasion ability if the character is a Rogue or a Monk.

It probably should be a function of the class feature, but that's not how it's written. And it's the sort of thing a revision should have cleared up...

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

Except it doesn't specify that you gain Evasion "as the class feature of a Rogue or Monk".

Evasion is a Special Ability. Rogues and Monks gain access to Evasion as a class feature. Rogues and Monks have restrictions on when they can use it.

A Fighter wearing the Ring is treated as if he had Evasion. Since he is neither a Rogue nor a Monk, the restrictions do not apply.

May not apply. Even creatures with Evasion as an innate ability can have the restrictions that the Monk's and Rogues do. It only says that some of them do not, not that most of them don't.

And having Evasion granted to you by a magic item does not make it an innate ability.

Since it only mentions creatures with Evasion as an innate ability as possibly not having that restriction, it's very likely that any creature who gains Evasion through another method (magic, class ability), does have the armor restriction.

Presumably a Paladin's mount in heavy barding would be able to still use Evasion.

 

[Hypersmurf]

May not apply. Even creatures with Evasion as an innate ability can have the restrictions that the Monk's and Rogues do. It only says that some of them do not, not that most of them don't.

Yup. And in 3.0, at least, any prestige class that granted Evasion as a class feature specifically stated the armor restrictions, while none of the creatures that had Evasion as a racial ability ever specifically stated that the restrictions did not apply. The pattern was that if the restrictions apply, it is stated.

The ring does not state that the restrictions apply.

And having Evasion granted to you by a magic item does not make it an innate ability.

As has been pointed out, the ring does not grant Evasion. It allows you to avoid damage as if you had Evasion, which suggests to me that you are treated as a creature with Evasion as an innate ability.

-Hyp.