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<blockquote data-quote="Jhyrryl" data-source="post: 939178" data-attributes="member: 6406">Rogues vs RangersI strongly agree with Apok.&nbsp; Rogues aren't supposed to be the end-all, be-all of combat, and if rangers can finally do more damage more consistently than them, that's a good thing.&nbsp; As for rogues being delegated to nothing more than filling the role of trap-finder/disarmer, you've apparently not played a rogue into the mid-to high levels.&nbsp; Any decent rogue is significantly more intelligent than most rangers, which, combined with the extra base skill points, means that the rogue is training in a significantly wider array of skills.&nbsp; But getting back to the point at hand, I'd be more than willing to say that rogues and rangers are effectively equally stealthy and perceptive, because after a certain point, you just don't need to keep those skills maxed out, especially with the acquisition of a couple cheap magic items.&nbsp; The difference is that the rogue has useful skills to spend those unused points on, whereas the ranger is almost forced to over-train.Given a good story-telling DM and all the Cha-based skills a rogue has access to, I'd play a rogue over a ranger any day.&nbsp; My rogue dominates the game I play in because he's involved in nearly every aspect of play: a result of his skills and combat ability.&nbsp; Every once in awhile we encounter a critter that require's the tank and/or mage to handle with little support from me, but that's as it should be, as I said before, rogues aren't supposed to be uber-combat characters.By the way, any spell a ranger can use, a rogue can use too; and then some.&nbsp; That's what Use Magic Device skill is for.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Oh, and regarding Hide in Plain Sight?&nbsp; Pfft.&nbsp; It's a 17th-level ability.&nbsp; Show me a 17th-level rogue who can't turn invisible pretty much at will, and I'll show you a dead rogue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jhyrryl, post: 939178, member: 6406"] [b]Rogues vs Rangers[/b] I strongly agree with Apok. Rogues aren't supposed to be the end-all, be-all of combat, and if rangers can finally do more damage more consistently than them, that's a good thing. As for rogues being delegated to nothing more than filling the role of trap-finder/disarmer, you've apparently not played a rogue into the mid-to high levels. Any decent rogue is significantly more intelligent than most rangers, which, combined with the extra base skill points, means that the rogue is training in a significantly wider array of skills. But getting back to the point at hand, I'd be more than willing to say that rogues and rangers are effectively equally stealthy and perceptive, because after a certain point, you just don't need to keep those skills maxed out, especially with the acquisition of a couple cheap magic items. The difference is that the rogue has useful skills to spend those unused points on, whereas the ranger is almost forced to over-train. Given a good story-telling DM and all the Cha-based skills a rogue has access to, I'd play a rogue over a ranger any day. My rogue dominates the game I play in because he's involved in nearly every aspect of play: a result of his skills and combat ability. Every once in awhile we encounter a critter that require's the tank and/or mage to handle with little support from me, but that's as it should be, as I said before, rogues aren't supposed to be uber-combat characters. By the way, any spell a ranger can use, a rogue can use too; and then some. That's what Use Magic Device skill is for. :) Oh, and regarding Hide in Plain Sight? Pfft. It's a 17th-level ability. Show me a 17th-level rogue who can't turn invisible pretty much at will, and I'll show you a dead rogue. [/QUOTE]

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