Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 2465208" data-attributes="member: 30610">It was originally d6, but then I ran into a bit of a problem: what does the class do?&nbsp; The traditional roles are essentially hitting, tanking, nuking, and healing.&nbsp; The closest role is tanking, but mostly tanking by avoiding getting actually hit, rather than tanking as a barbarian does by soaking up damage.&nbsp; The d6 die doesn't leave much room for leeway, and if you compare a shinobi with a d6 die to, say, an artificer, pre-20, they aren't really very different in melee.&nbsp; The images, utsusemi, and simacrula can only fool the enemy so much.&nbsp; They are going to invariably get hit.&nbsp; The question I asked myself was, &quot;should they be able to take one or two hits?&quot;I found that the answer was, &quot;Yes, unless I want them to be ultimately useless to their team.&quot;My intent was that they should not be focused on damage at all.&nbsp; Pre-Mastery (and to a lesser extent even post-mastery), they can't deal damage to compete with a rogue, assassin, or other heavy hitter.&nbsp;&nbsp; Heck, they can't even compare with any sort of damage dealing class.&nbsp; They don't even outdamage mages or clerics if the mages use evocations or the clerics use buffs.&nbsp; One or two sneak attack dice are not going to change that.&nbsp; The only real use of sure strike is to deliver poison.So if that's the case, how do they compare against a barbarian who has DR and rage, and can withstand the same punishment they do by instead just going toe-to-toe with the enemy, AND dish out much more damage while they're at it?&nbsp; Not favorably.&nbsp; There has to be something more given to them to make up for the severe lack of damage.Pushing the hit dice to d8 was one of the things I did to increase their durability and make up for that.&nbsp; If there's some other way to do it that is more thematic - perhaps increasing the number of mirror images that they can create, or something - I'll consider it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 2465208, member: 30610"] It was originally d6, but then I ran into a bit of a problem: what does the class do? The traditional roles are essentially hitting, tanking, nuking, and healing. The closest role is tanking, but mostly tanking by avoiding getting actually hit, rather than tanking as a barbarian does by soaking up damage. The d6 die doesn't leave much room for leeway, and if you compare a shinobi with a d6 die to, say, an artificer, pre-20, they aren't really very different in melee. The images, utsusemi, and simacrula can only fool the enemy so much. They are going to invariably get hit. The question I asked myself was, "should they be able to take one or two hits?" I found that the answer was, "Yes, unless I want them to be ultimately useless to their team." My intent was that they should not be focused on damage at all. Pre-Mastery (and to a lesser extent even post-mastery), they can't deal damage to compete with a rogue, assassin, or other heavy hitter. Heck, they can't even compare with any sort of damage dealing class. They don't even outdamage mages or clerics if the mages use evocations or the clerics use buffs. One or two sneak attack dice are not going to change that. The only real use of sure strike is to deliver poison. So if that's the case, how do they compare against a barbarian who has DR and rage, and can withstand the same punishment they do by instead just going toe-to-toe with the enemy, AND dish out much more damage while they're at it? Not favorably. There has to be something more given to them to make up for the severe lack of damage. Pushing the hit dice to d8 was one of the things I did to increase their durability and make up for that. If there's some other way to do it that is more thematic - perhaps increasing the number of mirror images that they can create, or something - I'll consider it. [/QUOTE]

Verification