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Character Builds & Optimization
3.5 smart, tricky fighter build help please
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5243998" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Oh, there is a Rogue already...</p><p></p><p>I recommend standard Dwarf "tank" fighter. Except, if you don't mind losing the shield (get a +1 animated heavy shield*, though) I think a two handed weapon (spending a feat on Spiked Chain is best) with reach is the best bet. Go for Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. Unless the rogue's doing archery, he'll probably be relying on you to flank with, so try to coordinate with him, and take feats to make you as annoying as hell to enemies that try to ignore you and kill the more squishy sneak attacking PC. If you don't want to start out with the spiked chain trip machine routine at level 1 (it is rather expensive in feats and gold), starting at level 1 with a wooden heavy shield, dwarven waraxe, and the heaviest armor you can afford is a solid way to go until you can transition to your new tactics.</p><p></p><p>I agree with Particle Man's ability score placements. If you are to multiclass later on, consider dipping Rogue, actually. Not just because you anted a tricky fighter, but if you are often flanking with the rogue, it can help that out a lot. You get some sneak attack for yourself, Evasion never hurts, Uncanny Dodge if you actually go to Rogue 4...and the most useful thing of all: Tumble. Any level you take as a Rogue, dump every skill point you possibly can into tumble, max it out. While armor check penalties will hurt, note that as a dwarf <strong>you can tumble even in full plate</strong> because the armor's not actually reducing your speed. Tumble is a great skill to have in general, especially to slip past the guard of big enemies with longer reach than you. The main purpose here, though, would be to make it easier to position yourself with the rogue to give him flanking. Other than possibly some rogue later on if you think it would help the party, stick with Fighter. If you don't want Rogue and you're running out of feats to take, a Barbarian dip is never horrible.</p><p></p><p>Feats you should aim for:</p><p>[sblock]</p><p>Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain] (If you don't want to spend a feat, consider Guisarme + Spiked Gauntlet, but Spiked Chain is totally worth the feat)</p><p>Combat Expertise (for Trip and Disarm, but could also help tanking when needed)</p><p>Improved Trip</p><p>Improved Disarm</p><p>Power Attack (none of the feats after it, though. Cleave is a trap and Improved Bull Rush is only useful if you have lots of melee allies to give AoOs to, and maybe very situationally useful otherwise. Sunder destroys treasure. Overrun I've never found useful)</p><p>Combat Reflexes</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>Feats that are ok, but less useful:</p><p>[sblock]Weapon Focus</p><p>Weapon Specialization</p><p>Improved Critical</p><p>Dodge (sucks, but required for Mobility)</p><p>Mobility (pretty sucky, useful to maneuver for the Rogue, required for Spring Attack)</p><p>Spring Attack (only reason this isn't in the other list is the pre-req feats)</p><p>Iron Will (nothing worse than the party meat shield getting mentally dominated)</p><p>Improved Initiative (going first is always nice, but it's more useful to Rogues and casters than you)</p><p>Improved Grapple (very nice feat, but requires Improved Unarmed Strike...ick)</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>If you're really overloading on feats still, getting some ranged ones to contribute when you can't reach the enemy to melee is ok for added versatility. Otherwise, getting a good composite bow with your strength rating, or even a cheap sling (range increment 50, can be fired one handed, and adds strength to damage, all for peanuts in coins, great poor man's weapon) should be sufficient.</p><p></p><p>Why you should be a Dwarf:</p><p>[sblock]+2 Con. You're the tank, right?</p><p>+2 saves on poison and spells is seriously worth more than a feat all on its own</p><p>Stability means if you fail to trip someone, they're less likely to trip you in response</p><p>Great free proficiency with the waraxe until you step up to spiked chain</p><p>Favored Class Fighter. Makes Dwarf automatically more useful than all but Human and Half-elf on its own.</p><p>Extra combat bonuses on Giants, orcs, and goblinoids, fairly common enemies.</p><p>Darkvision is a rare and wonderful benefit, and costs something like 12,000 gp to get with magic items (Goggles of Night)</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>*After you've already gotten your armor's enhancement bonus up to +2, a Ring of Protection +1 or +2, a Dusty Rose Iuon Stone (+1 Insight to AC), Dexterity +2 item, and possibly Natural Armor +1 if you can get it in the bracers slot so it doesn't compete with Amulet of Constitution +2 for the neck slot. These items all boost your AC for cheaper, so get them first (more efficient that way). Of course, you'll also want magic weapon, other ability score boosters, cloak of resistance, etc... So don't expect to be getting the animated shield until level 10+.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5243998, member: 35909"] Oh, there is a Rogue already... I recommend standard Dwarf "tank" fighter. Except, if you don't mind losing the shield (get a +1 animated heavy shield*, though) I think a two handed weapon (spending a feat on Spiked Chain is best) with reach is the best bet. Go for Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm. Unless the rogue's doing archery, he'll probably be relying on you to flank with, so try to coordinate with him, and take feats to make you as annoying as hell to enemies that try to ignore you and kill the more squishy sneak attacking PC. If you don't want to start out with the spiked chain trip machine routine at level 1 (it is rather expensive in feats and gold), starting at level 1 with a wooden heavy shield, dwarven waraxe, and the heaviest armor you can afford is a solid way to go until you can transition to your new tactics. I agree with Particle Man's ability score placements. If you are to multiclass later on, consider dipping Rogue, actually. Not just because you anted a tricky fighter, but if you are often flanking with the rogue, it can help that out a lot. You get some sneak attack for yourself, Evasion never hurts, Uncanny Dodge if you actually go to Rogue 4...and the most useful thing of all: Tumble. Any level you take as a Rogue, dump every skill point you possibly can into tumble, max it out. While armor check penalties will hurt, note that as a dwarf [b]you can tumble even in full plate[/b] because the armor's not actually reducing your speed. Tumble is a great skill to have in general, especially to slip past the guard of big enemies with longer reach than you. The main purpose here, though, would be to make it easier to position yourself with the rogue to give him flanking. Other than possibly some rogue later on if you think it would help the party, stick with Fighter. If you don't want Rogue and you're running out of feats to take, a Barbarian dip is never horrible. Feats you should aim for: [sblock] Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain] (If you don't want to spend a feat, consider Guisarme + Spiked Gauntlet, but Spiked Chain is totally worth the feat) Combat Expertise (for Trip and Disarm, but could also help tanking when needed) Improved Trip Improved Disarm Power Attack (none of the feats after it, though. Cleave is a trap and Improved Bull Rush is only useful if you have lots of melee allies to give AoOs to, and maybe very situationally useful otherwise. Sunder destroys treasure. Overrun I've never found useful) Combat Reflexes [/sblock] Feats that are ok, but less useful: [sblock]Weapon Focus Weapon Specialization Improved Critical Dodge (sucks, but required for Mobility) Mobility (pretty sucky, useful to maneuver for the Rogue, required for Spring Attack) Spring Attack (only reason this isn't in the other list is the pre-req feats) Iron Will (nothing worse than the party meat shield getting mentally dominated) Improved Initiative (going first is always nice, but it's more useful to Rogues and casters than you) Improved Grapple (very nice feat, but requires Improved Unarmed Strike...ick) [/sblock] If you're really overloading on feats still, getting some ranged ones to contribute when you can't reach the enemy to melee is ok for added versatility. Otherwise, getting a good composite bow with your strength rating, or even a cheap sling (range increment 50, can be fired one handed, and adds strength to damage, all for peanuts in coins, great poor man's weapon) should be sufficient. Why you should be a Dwarf: [sblock]+2 Con. You're the tank, right? +2 saves on poison and spells is seriously worth more than a feat all on its own Stability means if you fail to trip someone, they're less likely to trip you in response Great free proficiency with the waraxe until you step up to spiked chain Favored Class Fighter. Makes Dwarf automatically more useful than all but Human and Half-elf on its own. Extra combat bonuses on Giants, orcs, and goblinoids, fairly common enemies. Darkvision is a rare and wonderful benefit, and costs something like 12,000 gp to get with magic items (Goggles of Night) [/sblock] *After you've already gotten your armor's enhancement bonus up to +2, a Ring of Protection +1 or +2, a Dusty Rose Iuon Stone (+1 Insight to AC), Dexterity +2 item, and possibly Natural Armor +1 if you can get it in the bracers slot so it doesn't compete with Amulet of Constitution +2 for the neck slot. These items all boost your AC for cheaper, so get them first (more efficient that way). Of course, you'll also want magic weapon, other ability score boosters, cloak of resistance, etc... So don't expect to be getting the animated shield until level 10+. [/QUOTE]
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