D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Snipers, how to beat them.

[Runestar]

What kind of distance are we talking here anyways? 250ft (warlock using eldritch spear)? A wizard blasting with meteor swarm? (1000+ ft). A druid hovering overhead while wildshaped as a bird and raining firestorms down on the party?

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Well he plans to use the Force enchantment to bypass dr and windwall. As far as distance, a mere 75 feet with a gnomish crossbow sight on a double hand crossbow(two of them actually).

 

[irdeggman]

Thanks a lot for the input. There seems to be a disagreement as to whether the readied action has to spot him though. I do agree that it would eliminate the entire mechanic if a player/pc could simply ready an attack against a sniper myself.

From the Rules Compendium (RC) (pg 92)

If you're successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. That creature treats you as if you were invisible.

Sniping: If you've already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then take a move action to hide again. You tqake a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot.

RC (pg 110)

Under "Ready"

The action occurs just before whatever triggers it. If the triggering condition is part of another creatures activities, you interrupt that creature's turn. Assuming the interrupted creature is still capable of doing so, it continues its turn once you complete your readied action.

RC (pg 114)
under "Spot"

Every time a creature has a chance to see something, that creature can make a Spot check without using an action.. . . .

per 10 feet of distance there is a -1 check penalty

RC (pg 76}

An invisible attacker gains a +2 bonus on attacks against opponents that can't see it. Opponents are denied their Dexterity bonuses to AC against an invisible attacker's attacks.

We have always played that you need to make a spot check to find someone shooting at you from a distance.

In this case

Defender readies an attack to shoot at someone atacking him from a distance.

Hidden (i.e. invisible) attacker shoots - now he is visible.

Defender gets to make a spot check against a "visible" defender who is visible. I would make another spot check against the last hide check but subtract the +20 for being invisible.

Attacker gets to attempt to concela himself again (make a hide check with the -20 penalty) - but if the defender had successfully spotted him then he is now being observed and needs cover or concealment in order to hide.

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

According to what I'm seeing here, one would have to ready an action against the snipers attempt to hide again, since readied actions happen before what they are readied against, meaning the sniper needs to attack you first to be revealed to you, and then their attempt to hide is interrupted by your readied attack...right?

Would a ring of mind shielding stop mind-sight?

 

[irdeggman]

According to what I'm seeing here, one would have to ready an action against the snipers attempt to hide again, since readied actions happen before what they are readied against, meaning the sniper needs to attack you first to be revealed to you, and then their attempt to hide is interrupted by your readied attack...right?

Looks like.

Whenever we have had something like this come up we made the archer pick a square that he was readying his attack for and a condition for that square. "If someone appears in that square I attack", pretty much like the example in the PHB on readying a ranged attack against the first person that steps through the door.

The problem with readying an attack against a ranged attacker (that you don't know where they are) is that the attack can come from anywhere and even if you give the character the benefit of the doubt about knowing the trajectory it can still come from anywhere along that line.

If it was melee it is different since you have no "facing" and are completely aware of everything around you (that you can sense that is).

 

[Dark_Juggernaut]

Come to think of it, the example and the descriptions of readied attacks kind-of contradict each other. The example is "when they come through the door" but the description "before the triggering action happens". I'd probably find a middle ground "as it begins but before it ends".

At any rate, do you think a square must be targeted then, for readying at range?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

At any rate, do you think a square must be targeted then, for readying at range?

Only in the case of readying against someone who is hiding or invisible. Otherwise I don't really mind say..an archer in the middle of a room with two doors, simply readying to shoot someone who comes into his line of sight/effect. Or an archer readying to shoot the first enemy that is attacked in melee by an ally, regardless of where that happens (such as using the Deadeye Shot feat from PH2, so you can sneak attack, for example), so long as it's within point blank range.