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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
3.5 Spells - Far Weaker?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 2723154" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>Quoted for truth. I think most 3.0 tables would recognize that Harm was unbalanced (even though it worked mostly like earlier editions... personally, I tend to blame the concept of touch armor class more than anything else, in earlier editions you had to hit the full AC), Haste was unbalanced, and the Buff spells were too good with 1 hour/level durations and a randomized bonus susceptible to Empower and Maximize. And there were several spells that became abusive because the bonus given wasn't named appropriately, if at all, leading to stacking things that ought not to have been stacked.</p><p></p><p>That said, too many spells are now balanced with only combat in mind. Want to use Eagle's Splendor for your audience with the Duke to help you make a good impression? Not unless you speak so fast as to be rude. Fixing the bonus at 4 is fine, but they could have at least split the difference with the duration by making it 10 min/level. Cutting both was too much.</p><p></p><p>And I've said it before, invisibility has uses beyond combat. Or rather, it did. Now it doesn't. I don't buy the argument that scouting is what rogues are for. Sometimes you need more than one scout, sometimes the rogue is unavailable, sometimes nobody wants to play a rogue... and they shouldn't have to. The brilliant thing about magic was that it could help other PCs fill those niches from time to time (if the wizard was well prepared). </p><p></p><p>I don't think it 'ruined' the game. Too many other decent changes came with 3.5 (mainly the bard and ranger), but there also seemed to be too much feature creep, or too much fiddling with stuff that wasn't really broken in the first place. So we house rule a lot of spell durations from 1 minute/level up to 10 min/level. </p><p></p><p>I assume Sleep was also nerfed because of the Empower/Maximize combination. But considering it has a HD cap as to what could be affected, I don't see the point, really. By the time you modify the spell with those feats, you're a high enough level that the weak creatures affected aren't that big a deal anymore. Another case of too much fiddling, if you ask me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 2723154, member: 3400"] Quoted for truth. I think most 3.0 tables would recognize that Harm was unbalanced (even though it worked mostly like earlier editions... personally, I tend to blame the concept of touch armor class more than anything else, in earlier editions you had to hit the full AC), Haste was unbalanced, and the Buff spells were too good with 1 hour/level durations and a randomized bonus susceptible to Empower and Maximize. And there were several spells that became abusive because the bonus given wasn't named appropriately, if at all, leading to stacking things that ought not to have been stacked. That said, too many spells are now balanced with only combat in mind. Want to use Eagle's Splendor for your audience with the Duke to help you make a good impression? Not unless you speak so fast as to be rude. Fixing the bonus at 4 is fine, but they could have at least split the difference with the duration by making it 10 min/level. Cutting both was too much. And I've said it before, invisibility has uses beyond combat. Or rather, it did. Now it doesn't. I don't buy the argument that scouting is what rogues are for. Sometimes you need more than one scout, sometimes the rogue is unavailable, sometimes nobody wants to play a rogue... and they shouldn't have to. The brilliant thing about magic was that it could help other PCs fill those niches from time to time (if the wizard was well prepared). I don't think it 'ruined' the game. Too many other decent changes came with 3.5 (mainly the bard and ranger), but there also seemed to be too much feature creep, or too much fiddling with stuff that wasn't really broken in the first place. So we house rule a lot of spell durations from 1 minute/level up to 10 min/level. I assume Sleep was also nerfed because of the Empower/Maximize combination. But considering it has a HD cap as to what could be affected, I don't see the point, really. By the time you modify the spell with those feats, you're a high enough level that the weak creatures affected aren't that big a deal anymore. Another case of too much fiddling, if you ask me. [/QUOTE]
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